K4D It's a Wonderful Life

[Super Girl]

I agree, my D10 made an ornament in preschool when she was 3. It's supposed to be a gingerbread man, but it looks like a burlap blob sewn with red yarn. She puts it on the tree with pride every year.

[K4D]

For me the kids keep the Christmas spirit alive. It would be pretty meaningless without them given the obvious situation. Everything they do is special to me this season.

Today W wants to sync up on Christmas gifts for the kids. She bought some and I bought some. Something that just occured to me. Are the gifts going to say from mommy or from daddy this year outside of the usual ones that we will put from Santa? It has always been from mommy and daddy. Geez, if so, what a joke. But then again, this whole situation is a complete joke.

Ok, got to get my day going. I have a bit more shopping to do and work around the place so that it looks nice when W comes over Christmas morning.

Kevin

[Super Girl]

If you bought them, have them say from Daddy.

Make your place look nice for YOU, not because she is coming over.

[K4D]

Thanks SG,

I guess for me, my place doesn't have to be perfect. It is kept up, it just isn't 100% perfect looking.

But you are right. It should be for me. I guess I just want it to be perfect for W when she comes. I want to make the best impression I can on her.

Kevin

[K4D]

I already know what I am going to wear. I picked up some stuff yesterday. I will definitely be looking good. I have to get my hair cut again. I am going to do everything I can think of to wow her.

I will probably be 2x4'd for this. But I'm taking my shot at it anyways.

Kevin

[CityGirl]

There is no such thing as perfection. I hope you know that.

Make YOUR place how YOU want it. Get a haircut/new clothes to WOW yourself. And while your W is in YOUR home let her know by your ACTIONS you are the man of the house and you take the lead as far as your children are concerned. IMO if she is nothing more than a visitor in your home attending for a holiday celebration. I feel that would make a bigger impact on her than anything.

So often (in most cases I think and certainly in my own experience) the WAS wants the perks of marriage and family when it is obligatory (holiday, b-day or they need help/support) but when they don't want it, they just blow you off. It is of my opinion (and yes, we all have opinions) that so many LBS's block their own healing and forward movement when they allow the WAS to have the perks of marriage and family when they choose. Your W has opted out of the perks of a marriage and in tact family on a full time basis so when she is included she should be treated with the same courtesy you would treat any other random guests but not doted on or coddled as a spouse.

Shower yourself and girls with happiness and attention and let her see that she is now an outsider (who is still treated with kindness as you would any guest) but certainly not part of an in tact nuclear family simply because it is a holiday.

That is the exact reason I no longer answer my H's "happy holiday" texts or any other text/message unless it is about further execution of our Agreement. He opted out and no longer gets the perks of having a loyal and fantastic friend and wife. Its not about being rude or unkind. To me it's about actions and I choose to not have a part time friend/husband when he has a few spare and private moments away from his long term affair.

On the rare occasion I do have to see my H I am smiley, pleasant and polite as I would be to any random person I don't have a relationship of any sort with. I simply view him as an outsider and while I know that hurts him it's a very direct consequence of his actions over the past 21 months.

It certainly will take some powerful restraint on your part but make the holiday all about you and your girls and view your W as a guest who was fortunate enough to be included. Be kind but shower yourself and your girls with attention and love. She chose to dismantle the family. Show her you have created a new one. Let her be the one to engage conversation. As I said, be happy, polite, civil and welcoming to her as you would to any other guest you would have in your home for a holiday celebration. That is how I would handle it.

Happy Holidays.

[Startingover2]

Great post CG! Very right on for all of us.

So often (in most cases I think and certainly in my own experience) the WAS wants the perks of marriage and family when it is obligatory (holiday, b-day or they need help/support) but when they don't want it, they just blow you off. It is of my opinion (and yes, we all have opinions) that so many LBS's block their own healing and forward movement when they allow the WAS to have the perks of marriage and family when they choose. Your W has opted out of the perks of a marriage and in tact family on a full time basis so when she is included she should be treated with the same courtesy you would treat any other random guests but not doted on or coddled as a spouse.

They do want the part time family life and then be free to live their life apart from the family. It doesn't work that way in the real world.

[25yearsmlc]

Two things:
no, 3 things...I'm tired...done wrapping though!

Okay First, Your comment about dressing to wow your stbxw is still off the mark even though the result is good. You want to look your best b/c you are ON your best b/c you deserve it, after all, you are meeting interesting people, going to new places and doing fascinating things!! And you're a good looking guy with women who are interested in you if you let them, and you'd be dating if you felt like it and you have stuff going on in your life....but to do it for her...???? Hello???? No. She'd be a blind fool not to notice the new you so if she's a blind fool, that's HER problem not yours....next issue....

You are unbelievably missing all of our points about being your own man and [u]not needing her approval.[/u] I know, you can't/won't be strong enough to do that and yet the weakness is what repels her but you can't/won't change that and so blah blah blah you are stuck... you are one thick headed dude.

Being upbeat and taking care of yourself is b/c you ARE Doing that for your life to improve for you to be happier...anyhow...not FOR her... anyway........moving....on....
2)
A slight issue with the cake eating thing. I get it. But I wonder... if it were me, (and once upon a time it was)... I'd make sure you project what COULD be your wife's life, if she were to choose it, and so you want to contrast the warmth and joy and family life you all will have temporarily, with the life your wife is choosing to have instead. So while I agree with CG and others about not letting your wife cake eat, I say that goes more to the bills STILL now worked out, and changing child care plans at the last minute, often, and verbally abusing you, in front of the girls, her not having any problems crossing your boundaries-- and her yet enforcing her own on you.

But as for the Holy day itself, why not make it fun and happy? Would it really offend you to put "mommy and daddy" on the gifts? Isn't that really you wanting to show your wife some tiny point that will either be a painful reminder for your children that you are divorcing, AND you two cannot get your acts together to unite for gifts on Christmas, and you are also trying to "teach your Xw a lesson"--which we all know is not our jobs to do... and almost always means we're trying in some way to punish? Yeah it's a fine line between being punitive-- and enforcing a healthy boundary, but In your case, it's not as if she bought them nothing- while you spent all your money on gifts is it? Isn't it more likely she paid more? This isn't a boundary to me. It's petty and ironically the boundaries that really count, like the bill paying and the child care are the battles you hide from but on this point, you want to make a stand?

Some day your d's will finish high school or college, and then one will marry. If your xw has remarried a wealthy guy which seems to be her plan du jour, and they are paying for 90% of the wedding b/c you didn't save a cent for it, or make enough, etc...and let' say you walk the d down the aisle...imagine that your xw and her h pay most of the wedding BUT say "it's from US" and they include you...they don't apportion it, or say Only a little from dad, or K4 has to buy his own puny gift b/c blah blah blah he makes less money and blah blah blah....ideally if it comes down to divorce ---don't you want to avoid any type of competing with gifts? Thing is, the kids lose the most with that. (And I have a feeling you will lose there too buddy. You harp about money and your lack of it, but you want to be picky and specific on this issue. Even if your gifts this year are greater, what about next year? This is not a good precedent to set. As long as you have Christmases together, I'd say the gifts come from you both (until OM or OW come into the pic. Cross that bridge later...)

My older brother and his Xwife put both their names for years b/c they did discuss the gift purchases with each other, and though they paid different amounts, each parent wanted their d to feel loved by them both and not that they were in a competition. Just as both parents will be proud the day their d graduates, they won't say "I am proud BUT this comes from ME ONLY, ... I can't speak for your mother..." You can mock it all you want, but I think it's the high road -FOR NOW-and anyhow you keep saying you are still married...and it seems petty to say "from DADDY ONLY" on a card, thereby reminding them of the sep and looming divorce by effectively pointing it out. Plus if our X W spends more than you anyhow, how do you lose? Seems a little odd that she's willing to have your name on the gifts she bought b/c she may have paid more. ANd if not, so what? Isn't her rent/over head a lot higher than yours too? I know SHE wanted the divorce. In her mind it was justified (at the time it was justified in your mind too)... I don't feel super strongly about this, but I think it's worth pointing out.

Again, if you want to project "this is what could be" for us, then do it right. Be a strong confident man who doesn't second guess his choices and who does not worry about his wife staring at him or whether he's good enough, BUT does care about his daughters feeling that Santa visited them and they got good gifts from both parents AND that both parents put aside their anger issues & scorecards for them, b/c both parents really love them so much that their anger at each other (or their desire to [b]"teach the spouse a lesson" and "make a point" was not in the Christmas spirit. Leave those lessons for another day perhaps?[/b]

SO YOU KNOW, I say all this even though it may seem counter intuitive, b/c it's based on DB advice my coach gave me 2-3 Christmases back. I did not want to pretend all was well w/H. I wanted my h to sleep on the couch and be a guest. I wanted him to taste the down side of single life in the sense that he could not get his "family fix" and yet live elsewhere...but my DB coach took another approach...again, our sitch was not identical and h never said "get out, you repel me" or that he wanted a divorce...he had a "mission" that didn't include us and made it clear at the time that the task he wanted outweighed all else in his life.

And everyone of us has to make the ML choices we make based on what we can handle AND what's safe if there's an OP in the picture for example.

But my DB coach told me something I'll never forget, --"Contrast the negative images he's created to justify his choice, with positive images that undermine the negative. Contrast the warmth and love he can find at home, with whatever he's finding out there in the cold tundra..." and see what happens" and since it was only a few days, I was able to pull it off. We had a great Christmas...and another turning point I think. And more positive memories for the kids.

It was a gamble no matter what I did. But as I said, it wasn't a long period of time and it was for the children to remember playing happily and if that meant a few days more of happy family memories, then so be it. That much more for a WAS to miss...Later h would say how much he missed them and us...i was NOT needy, I was upbeat, attractive, happy with the kids and NOT showing awareness of h except when he spoke and then I was interested in him (like CG says) but I was also warm and complimentary ...it was only a few days. You only have to be strong and happy (WITHOUT LOOKING EXCITED OR EAGER) one day.

That's my take. CG, we may agree to disagree and you could be totally right, But consider this too...do you think K4 can pull off any type of detachment without anger if he's trying to show her how good he looks and being upbeat AND yet makes sure she "knows her place" and all is NOT well? IS this the time to make that clear? Seems to me you don't want your w to enjoy herself and that's kind of counter intuitive b/c again, she's supposed to associate you with warmth/love/leadership/partnership but all I hear is guilt arrows you're shooting at her, and some begging. I hear a lot of increasing resentment in his posts for this time of year and if K4, if you drink, I foresee a fight. In fact , I envision a bad bitter scene/major backslide about to take place if you won't play nice for the day...just my two cents...

One thing I'm SURE of is DO NOT overthink this. Take an approach and stick to it, and be there fully present for your daughters. In fact, once the gifts are wrapped, and everyone's there, why even ponder your w? This day is for lovers and children...not estranged spouses suspecting and maneuvering...stop that b/c it's not going to work anyhow, and it's SO not the right focus. CHRISTmas...make it about the kids and not the scorecard.

Be a man who is happy on his own (fake it til you make it on that score) and brings something to the table that is NOT a need from his estranged wife. Someone with interests and compassion and lots of vibrant love and joy in his heart. And AT the end of the day when w is leaving--all that ENDS and she's not in the warm fun loving home of laughter and hugs and joy....let her figure that out. Back off and she just might...

the harder you hold onto her, the more she'll pull away. (rabbits and foxes...)

Oh, k4, may seem like a chick flick/date movie, but RENT the movie "the holiday" (not Queen Latifahs' but the one with Cameron Diaz/ Kate Winslet/jack Black and Jude Law) and make sure you listen to the speech Kate makes to the man who broke her heart but then wants to win her back...listen carefully and see how good you'll feel.

Merry Christmas
j-

PS hope this makes sense as I'm falling asleep now...

[Steve McQueen]

ah, scratch "the secret agent" as a southern boy you should read "the sound and the fury."

btw, for month and months and months, 25yearsmlc been ripping you a new one. when you gonna stand up to her?

[Startingover2]

I agree with the Xmas gifts and day. Put Mommy and Daddy on the tag and be cheerful and nice. It will only hurt your girls if your not. Not saying to sit next to her and hold her hand, but be friendly and nice as you would treat a houseguest. Remember your girls are watching.