how to 180 when you've been too independent?

[chatterbug]

Stop with the little nice things. he is having an affair on you. It is alive and active.

You should look at automating the bills with him.

I really think these things hurt you more than you realize. You spend days leading up to them worrying about them. Then it takes a few days to recover.

Is it worth it?

Perhaps you should spend the same amount of time and effort to answer that question.

And if it is worth it.

List out your goals for these meetings. What works, what does not.

Track it.

And show yourself proof that this is worth it.

Read the chapters in DB about tracking your 180's and progress again.

I hope this helps.

[avermont]

Well, it is a joint account. If I were him, I would want to review the joint account on a regular basis to make sure all was on the up and up.

And yes, it is my one chance to see him, look all gorgeous, act all cool, etc.

I don't have enough contact with him to really "track" things. Let's see: October: at the house; I act all normal and friendly; he's cranky and angry and leaves in anger.

So...in December do I act more cold and withdrawn? Just for something different?

But remember---this is the guy who never felt confident I loved him. I never pursued. So--again--how to 180 when you've been too independent!!!

aggg..

[Ready2Change]

I might be a bit to later on this, but may help in the future.

I too was very independent. Lost connection. I learned a lot about body language. It works. I tested it. practice it.

Soo, do not sit "chess style" at the table. Get a round one and sit "Next to him".

When you look at him, study what you like about his face. Study his eyes and lips. Imagine kissing him. Think positive the whole time. Smile (not the face one, but the real one that comes from your positive thoughts).

[avermont]

Thanks for the input.

I decided my 180 would be this: when we met for bills in October, it was at the house. I was very bustling around, very cheery, maybe playing "hostess" in his own house? Kept offering him a beer as he was drinking coffee and things were getting tenser and tenser.

So, now he may be angry that I suggested meeting elsewhere. But it is HIS 180 to let me know how he feels. (thus the collapse of our relationship)

So tonight I will be quieter, more subdued. We did have those pleasant friendly email exchanges, and I would want the atmosphere to be more like that. Trying to go for sweeter and lower-key. Not the happy hostess.

I will look good; take my anti-anxiety meds. I will think sexy loving thoughts when I look at him. We will sit next to each other to look at the computer screens, so that is easy.

Cutterbug, I appreciate the advice that all this agita may not be worth it, but it is joint financial responsibility, and my only chance to see him. I have plans for drinks immediately afterwards, so I will have company to get me through the aftermath.

I will let you know how it goes!

[rockedworld]

Hi Aver,
Yes, please let us know how it goes. It sounds like you have a good plan.
One of the aspects of my M that I have taken responsibility for and am now working on changing is that I gave my H too much space. Now that we are piecing, I make sure I sit close to him, brush his arm when I walk past him, look in his eyes when he is talking, etc.
I started doing some of this during DBing when the A was active as well, although in a more subdued way. H now tells me this did have an affect.
You can do it!

[Ready2Change]

I would also like to suggest "Visualizing" the whole interaction (before hand) with him enjoying the time together. Send him blessings.

[avermont]

Ohh--scary--to do an "accidental" brush while the A is active? gotta find a way to make that subtle and accidental.

And yes, visualizing is a great idea. I can make a reasonable, but happy vision of some chuckles, some checking in on how things are going.

Doesn't have to be all business. He seemed so cranky about meeting at the library that that will be the first obstacle to overcome. Maybe I can start with how much I appreciate that he was willing to try meeting there.

Keep suggestions coming!

[pearlharbr]

This is going to make me sound like a Grinch, but I don't see this plan working well.

He is completely ensconced in the affair fog. When I tried to be nice to BF while he was heavy in the affair fog it just pushed him further away.

I am a strong believer in taking a hard stand. Why would you want to go out of your way to be nice to someone who has treated you so poorly? As I told BF, I wouldn't tolerate a friend treating me with such disrespect so why should I accept that from him? And more importantly, why do you want to chase after someone who doesn't want you?

I would show up looking fabulous, get straight to business, treat it strictly as a business meeting, then flash a winning smile as you're leaving and saying, "Oh, I didn't realize the time. I hate to keep people waiting! See ya."

That's just my opinion. Because I know that I'm worth more than being treated like crap. And because it worked.

And before you start in yet again with "I was too independent" I don't believe that for one minute. You were a strong independent woman when you met BF and started dating. If he didn't like those traits he never would have gotten together with you in the first place. He is rewriting history to justify his affair and he got you to buy it hook, line and sinker.

Do you have commitment and intimacy issues? Absolutely. And you are right to work on those. But that doesn't mean you should turn into a damsel in distress, especially because that isn't really you.

[soleil]

I am a strong believer in taking a hard stand. Why would you want to go out of your way to be nice to someone who has treated you so poorly? As I told BF, I wouldn't tolerate a friend treating me with such disrespect so why should I accept that from him? And more importantly, why do you want to chase after someone who doesn't want you?

I would show up looking fabulous, get straight to business, treat it strictly as a business meeting, then flash a winning smile as you're leaving and saying, "Oh, I didn't realize the time. I hate to keep people waiting! See ya."

Awesome advice, Pearl.

[chatterbug]

Aver. The weapon of detachment. It is a powerful weapon. Please do not toss this away. Your killing yourself here.

Each time you do something nice. Each time you contact him. Look at what your doing.

1. Aver approves of the affair. Look she is nice to me about all this. She is happy about this. She has accepted this. She has moved on.
2. Each time you see him and do these things you reset your internal clock and his on detachment. Ground zero over and over and over. False starts.
3. He does not get to detach. He does not get to actually releaze that he is losing you. This is a powerful experience. Look at what it has done to you. Why are you dening him this experience? Why are you shielding him from losing you? You are letting him go slowly.
4. You are killing your relationship with kindness. He killed it with an affair. Actions = consequences. No compression. No chance to determine if the relationship is worth saving. You need to let deal with his guilt on his own. This being nice just adds to that guilt. It is something he is avoiding. Guilt can turn to resentment. One of you will get here first. Then it truly is over.
5. You are racing with him on the complete distruction of this relationship. You think you can get him back with a brush of a hand once a month while dealing with the stressful conversation of finances.

You are using the finances as an excuse to meet with him. Something he does not want.

Automate it. Have it set up so you can both view the account on line.
Set up in writting the date and amount that money gets deposited into the account. Set up who pays the bills or automate it.

Detach.

You want to know something Aver. I am going to say this because I have followed your stitch since the beginning.

His Affair is with a needy woman. She is more needy than you will ever be. Why? Its her nature. You will not win this battle.

I know all about a strong independent woman. I fell in love with one. I am attracted to a strong independent woman. I am also a strong independent man.

You know how I got my strong independent woman 13 years ago.

I let her know I was interested. Then I had to pursue and withdraw at the same time. She was a prize. A woman I desired. She did not come to me because she was a strong independent woman. But at the same time. I gave her the space to determine if she wanted me. So its grew slowly at first. But it was I who pursued. But at the same time she was pursuing me.

You need to relearn this Aver. This is what attracted him to you in the first place.

He has to work out why he did what he did.
He has to learn what it is like to be without Aver ever again.

You have shown him that you are dependent on him. Let him stew on that by himself for awhile.

Dump him now. Let him fully see what he has lost due to his selfishness.

Come on Aver. You are so much better than all this. Time to gain control of everything again. 100% independence. Strong. In control. These are attractive. Let him be smothered by needy.
Let him figure out what he really wants by giving him the complete space he needs.

Fear is holding you back. Fear is ruining you. Your long term health and well being is at stake here. Fight for yourself now.