C - The way I see it. You can either continue playing the punishment game or you can consider forgiveness. What would happen if you showed her "a little" of your sensitive side. Believe me I know how hard it is to drop the defenses after all that has transpired. I just think that if you let her know some more of how this made you feel and how you understand why she did what she did you might see some progress. The line of communication hasn't been cut completely. Try a different approach and see what happens. Remember 180's? You are in the final round. You will always have some sort of relationship with her as coparents. You will want it to be civil.
If I were you next time you speak with her I would say something like "look I know I haven't been as nice and respectful to you the last couple months, but when I discovered what was going on it really hurt. I had reached a point of understanding of how it must have felt treating you the way I did in the past. We have both done things to hurt eachother and I want to just put it in the past. If YOU are not capable of FORGIVENESS then that is your CHOICE I personally have carried this burden long enough."
If she's still hell bent then she had convinced herself a long time ago and there's nothing that can be said or done right now to change that. Just move on with everything and let her be the one to put the last nail in the coffin by drawing up the final agreement that you can change and review.
Sorry PMA, but I don't agree in this case b/c he did let her know many times how he felt. He did let his defenses down and I think he was at a place one time that he was willing to work on forgiving and make a go of the R for the kids' sake. But his WW is so selfish and has taken advantage of him every way she can think of. I remember how he was thoughtful and showed respect, even though she sure didn't deserve it. She has not shown any moves that even hinted at wanting to work at a R with him, but has teased his emotions enough to keep him in a tiszy....until he finally got tough enough to stop playing games with her. I hope he will be able to find forgiveness.....but for his own peace and not for her sake, necessarily. JMHO, but even if he forgave her and she was willing to go back and live with him, she would not be faithful to him and would continue to put him through h*ll.
CIPA, I think you can expect her make a sexual advance toward you in the very near future. It will be her despart attempt at getting you to submit to her wishes and accept a lot less money from her. Yes, divorce is a b*tch......but then, I think she is also! Sorry If I am being ugly but I think the woman deserves to get hit with anything the court throw at her.
Just wanted you to be prepared to expect the unexpected b/c I don't think she is fully convinced that she can't wrap you around her little finger. However, after everything that she's put you through, I believe you have wised up to what she is capable of doing. I was proud of how you reminded her of what was said when she was wanting "you" to fork over the money.
Next year just has to be a better year for you!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
She didn't call the boys on Friday nite. Typical.....
The three of us had a great time though. We went to a local pizza place for dinner (one that we had gone to quite often before she moved out). The owner and employees know the boys since they were each 3 months old (pretty much when they were "big" enough to go out). So the boys really enjoy going there as they have the run of the place.
Afterwards we went to a christmas event at our church. We got there at 6 and didn't leave till it was over at 9. The kids were a little skeptical as we were driving there, but they wound up having a blast. We went on a horse and carriage ride, an animal petting zoo, watched a live nativity scene with animals, saw the kids choir perform a show and of course there was an endless supply of fresh baked christmas cookies. The kids made a bunch of ornaments for our christmas tree that we were going to set up this weekend.
They had been disappointed their mother set up a tree at her apt without them. She told them she did it all by herself, but she had bought a live tree and is in a second floor apt, so I seriously doubt she got it up the stairs by herself. More lies to the boys, but whatever.....
The kids got up early on Sat morning excited to setup our tree at home. I told them they would have to wait till after breakfast. After breakfast, I went down to get the christmas tree stuff out but was surprised/hurt to see a lot of stuff was missing. My boys got really upset too. It was my own fault, I should have checked before I told the boys we would do the tree together. Or I could have made it an event to go buy some "new" decorations together.
Anyway, I told the boys that we will make it an awesome tree with whatever we had and we could pick out some new decorations together if we needed it. I told them let's see what we had and we can figure it out. I let my 3 year old hang up the ornaments at the bottom of the tree, my 7 year old hung them up in the middle and I did the top. There were a couple of ornaments that were "mom" ornaments. I was surprised she didn't take them, but when we got to them, my 7 year old just said we can hang them up in the back of the tree so we won't have to look at them all the time. It broke my heart to hear him say it, but I let him hang them there.
When we got all the ornaments that we had hung up, the boys spirits were a little better as they said it looked awesome. Then they asked about the train. They said that she hadn't set it up so they thought it should be at home. I looked all over the basement but couldn't find it anywhere. Finally I told them that we don't have it. My boys lost it. My 7 year old started to cry and my 3 year old got really mad. I hugged them both and just said that we can go out tomorrow to pick out a train set that we would like. My 7 year old said he didn't want to waste my money as he knew I didn't have a job. I told him that it wouldn't be a waste as it was something that would be important to the three of us.
My 3 year old then said he wanted to call mommy to see if she'll bring it back. So they called her. Big surprise, she didn't answer so they left a voice mail. She called a little while later and the first thing my 7 year old asked was can we borrow the train set since she wasn't using it this year. She seemed to be surprised by this as all she said was ok. Then my 7 year old said bye and hung up. We'll see if she actually brings it.
We had lunch and my 3 year old went for his nap. I was playing pokemon with my 7 year old when we noticed it was starting to snow. We started to look for our winter gear so we could go out to play in it when my 3 year old woke up from his nap.
My neighbor wound up ringing the doorbell while we were gathering our winter gear. I had told him yesterday that I was back as I lost my job again. He had brought over a homemade dinner his wife made when she heard what happened to me. It was a really nice gesture which brought a tear to my eye to see how there were still good people out there. Guess the mother had really jaded me into giving up on people....
When my 3 year old woke up, we went out and started shoveling the driveway. Then we made a couple of snowmen and had a snowball fight. It was great!
She didn't call again on Sat, but I didn't have them call her as they seemed so happy and they always get down when they call her and she doesn't answer so I didn't want to bring down their mood.
Today, after we had breakfast, we wound up going sledding. My boys were really excited as last year we didn't get enough snow to go sledding so my 3 year had never gone sledding and my 7 year old was bumming about not getting a chance last year. We went out there and it was awesome.
So pretty much this weekend was a wintery fun filled weekend for the boys and I. She didn't pick them up tonite as she was sick (strep throat). I told her that I can keep them tomorrow nite as well since she's not feeling well and I wouldn't want them to catch it. She said we would talk about it tomorrow.
So goes another weekend.
I do have a couple of interviews next week so I'm excited about that. I had called her to ask if her mom could watch the kids while I was at the interviews (we reduced the child care cost by having me watch the 3 year old Mon, Weds and Fri and took my 7 year old out of the before and after school care program he was in). She said her mom would.
So hopefully an opportunity pops soon......
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
What a fun weekend w/your boys! They sound so yummy!
Good luck on Tuesday! We're VERY close to quota, and I have half of it in my reach THIS week! I prepped the men for you. Let's talk again real quick before you go in.
Me-46, D-21, S15, S13
After many years w/my head in the sand... I FILED Divorced 6/2011
The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think.
After she flipped out on Thurs nite, I did wind up sending a text telling her that once she calmed down she can call me if she needs to. She never responded.
I was going to give it a couple of days and then try to use this opportunity to negotiate a deal that would be beneficial for when I do wind up working again.
She wound up calling me on Sat. She sounded pretty bad as she said thinks she had strep throat and was going to see a doctor. I almost asked her who she caught it from as I was still mad from Thurs but I didn't.
She started by saying that as a compromise for custody, she is willing to go with what I'm proposing for while I'm out of work and we can go with one of her options for when I start working again.
I took that opportunity to tell her that I felt that we've both haven't been very nice and respectful to each other. I reminded her of what I had told her back when she was preparing to move out, that the divorce process is meant to be destructive and adversarial. So I'm very interested in getting this aspect behind us as it is not good for any of us (me, the boys or her). So I told her that if she wants to put her thoughts together to cover custody, support and equity split, for when I'm unemployed as well as once I start working, I would take a look at it. I reminded her to be sure she fair with what I use as a test - would she be comfortable taking either side of the proposal. If not, I told her not to waste my time.
She said she would, although I still haven't seen anything yet.
I did remind her that I told her back in April, when she was preparing to move out, that we need to get this crap out of the way as all that I approach, otherwise, the adverserial nature of the process will really put us at odds at each other, and that was before I knew the truth. I told her that I deal with that type of negotiations very often in my line of work so, I don't enjoy it, but I am not very comfortable engaging in it.
I'm not sure if it's because she's sick or she realizes she is coming from a really weak position, but her tone is softening. I'm matching it to see how this plays out, but I'm keeping my eyes wide up. If I see anything that even hints that she is trying to play me, I'm just gonna walk away from the table. This time, time is on my side as we have a hearing on Dec 15th that she can't afford for us to go to.....
I could tell she is softening, and most likely playing me, as even during that call, she was telling me how she had to sleep my side of the bed (her words) as, when she was sick, she had the cold sweets so her side was all damp/disgusting. I said "My side?" She just said "Yeah". I just laughed and said "That's funny that you still call it that" as I was shaking my head.
I did get annoyed as she called me huney a couple of times. I didn't say anything, but I really don't feel like she is going to make a sincere attempt at the agreement. But we shall see......
What was also "surprising" was that her mom was going to watch the kids on Friday afternoon so I could go to my interview. Her mom had an appointment in the early evening and it didn't seem like I would be back in time. So she said she would pick them up and we would meet somewhere for dinner to do the exchange. I said ok but now I'm tempted to back out of it as I can remember less than 4 weeks ago she kept refusing to do something like that. I don't know what's she's going to try to pull, but I am willing to see what she is really up to......
So her nonsense continues.... she was right when, the last time I had tried to talk with her about trying to work things out, she said how are suppose to trust each other with all that had happened. I remember I responded by saying we won't know till we try, but now I'm not so sure......
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
What a fun weekend w/your boys! They sound so yummy!
Good luck on Tuesday! We're VERY close to quota, and I have half of it in my reach THIS week! I prepped the men for you. Let's talk again real quick before you go in.
Thanks Mindful - I really appreciate all your help!
Hope to see you on the big island :-)
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
I was a good week with the boys and I as they got to stay at home through Tues nite. I had an interview on Tues that went pretty well (thanks Mindful!) where she had to pick up my 3 year old from day care (he goes just on Tues and Thurs) and her mom picked up my 7 year old from school. We had pre-arranged that I would pick them up from her at a resturant, but as timing worked out, we wound up having dinner together (the 4 of us). This was the first time since I found out the truth.
I really wasn't looking forward to it as I drove to the resturant as I didn't know how I would feel when I saw her. My dear friend reminded me to act happy and like all is well - tall order considering how mad I still am at how she cheated on me and was so cruel all year. Anyway, when I got to the resturant, the boys were thrilled to see me so that really helped me get into the right spirit.
Overall, we had a good time at dinner, it was just like the dinners we used to have before I found out the truth. The boys came home with me from the dinner that nite and I always find it interesting how they never freak out when they go from her to I but my 3 year old is really stressed when he leaves me to go with her.
Anyway, she wound up picking them up from me on Weds nite. It was hard as my 3 year old was really stressing as they drove away. After they drove away, I wound up going out with on of my buddies for beer and wings.
Thurs morning, she dropped off my 7 yeard old so that I could take hime to school. He and I had some one on one time for a bit before I had to take him to school. He really likes having that time with me as we get it so rarely now. When I picked him up from school, we got to play catch with a football for a while before we had to go in so he could get his homework done before his mom picked him up.
When she showed up with my 3 year old, once again, he was stressing as they drove away. I spent most of that nite, sending out resumes again and preparing for my interview on Fri.
Friday, she dropped off both of my boys. After we dropped off the 7 year old at school, my 3 year old and I got to have another one on one day. It was pretty miserable out (cold and raining), but my mid morning, it stopped raining and warmed up slightly so we went outside. My 3 year old was amazed how the swales around our development were like mini-rivers with all the rain run off. We wound up throwing acorns into the "river" and watching them float away. He kept saying how it was a little adventure for him and I. Even though my feet were soaked (he had rain boots on), it was a blast!
I dropped him off at her mom's house shortly after lunch so that I could go to my interviews. He seemed a little sad, but he knew I had to go to a meeting about a job so he knew that was something I had to do.
The inteviews didn't end till almost 6:30 PM and I was tempted to pick up the boys from her, but decided to stick with the plan of picking them up when we met for breakfast Sat morning.
So that Friday nite as the first friday nite I did not have the kids since she moved out. It was sorta last minute that we worked out that she would keep the kids Fri nite, and I had tried to call some of my buddies to see if they wanted to go out, but all my buddies are married with kids, so they couldn't. I wound up just chillin at home and texting with some of my friends.
We met Sat AM for breakfast at IHOP. I picked them up from her place. The kids were really excited to see me. I was a little annoyed with her as she seemed very preoccupied with her phone (she was getting texts) but I tried to take a whatever attitude. I had gotten a few texts during breakfast too. She actually forwarded me a text where one of friend's brother-in-law had gotten killed Fri nite in a car accidenet.
Unfortunately, when my phone beeped, she said she forwarded me a text. I looked at it and it was something from someone else that made me smile. I looked at her and she gave me a WTF look and said she can't believe I thought it was funny. I said I didn't get her text yet, it was from someone else. Just then her text came in and I saw it. I just told her it was really sad, but you never know what life brings you.
She then sent me another text that said his wife had thrown him out just before thanksgiving because of his drinking. I didn't respond.
On the way back to dropping her off at her apt, she asked about what time do I need to drop off the kids at her mom's on Tues (we have a court appointment for Custody and support). I told her about an hour before we had to be at court. Then I asked if she ever did anything on the agreement I asked her to put together. She said she had some ideas, but we had to talk. I just said ok, just let me know when. Of course she never called on Sat nite or tonite.
Whatever......
I did have a good weekend with the boys as my boys brought the train back from her apt so we put it together this weekend. It was pretty miserable all weekend, so we pretty much stayed at home (we went out for a bit on Sat for a short bike ride but it was cold). We did wind up writing letters to Santa so that was pretty cool.
So goes another weekend....
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
Well we got the custody and support thing done. Ironically, from a support perspective, not only does she need to pay me now (since I lost my job and unemployment is less than 20% of what I had been making), but it turns out I had been overpaying her by almost $500/month. Her lawyer looked like a smacked ass as he started by saying I should have been paying $1000/month more!
Custody I wound up with I have them on Mon & Tues nites, she has them on Weds and Thurs nites and then we alternate Fri, Sat and Sunday.
I didn't want to not see my kids for 5 days at a clip, but as a dear friend of mine reminded me, that was what had been happening when I was in NY. And now, being unemployed, I still see them everyday as I take them to school and pick them up.
What's interesting is my lawyer told me that as I long as I make less than her, she will have to continue to pay me child support (crazy how it works out in this state) - so I'm toying with the idea of finding a job that pays me about $500/year less.... (I had been making about 50% more than she did).
She was really pissed at the end of it - the last piece is equity. I did try to talk with her to get it settled but she wasn't interested. Guess timing is everything.....
Me 41 WAW 36 S 3&7 M 10 yrs W files D 1/9/09 W moves out 4/18 Lost job 6/15 New job 7/27 Disc PA 8/10 (started Nov 2008!) Confronted 8/11 Admits PA & appologies for hurt 9/11 Lost Job 11/13
