WAW Using God

[SpinFree]

If it sounded like I was whining, it wasn't my intent. Sometimes you just need to b*tch.

It's called a "victim puke" in No More Mr. Nice Guy lingo. Now that you've purged, enforce some boundaries.

I looked but didn't see a transparency agreement. With you out of the way, she is free to wreck your marriage willy-nilly with all-forgiving Jesus on her side.

Make sure that transparency is there.

I would also set a boundary of what constitutes "working on her demons".
Wife, this arrangement is at your request for the purpose of "working on you". You need to be accountable for that. I need to know that you are (for example)
1) meeting weekly with pastor
2) taking your medication
3) interacting positively with the children
4) maintaining transparency
5) maintaining integrity in your communications with me and others (STOP LYING)

If you can not do these simple things, our agreement is null and void. I will be returning to the marital bed within 24 hours for the good of our family. Have I used any words which you do not understand?

Brudda, I know it's hard. Holding my wife accountable is like nailing jello to a wall. I don't always get there.

In this case, SHE wants something (you in an apartment). Only YOU have the power to grant it. SHE will have to live by YOUR terms to get what SHE wants. I can't go into Wal-Mart and demand the 47" LCD TV for $3.99USD. It's their TV. You have the TV. Set the price.
(This should not be taken as an endorsement of moving out, but you got to start somewhere.)

Sometimes strength and honor means taking a blow. Sometimes it means doing some very unpleasant things.
Gird your loins with the WHOLE armor of God and strike a blow for your family.

SpinFree

[pigskin]

"I've gotten her to end contact with the OM."

This is where the problem is. She didn't cut it off voluntarily. She did it because you got the person in charge involved. Now see it from her POV. Does it make you seem like a hero or an @$$?

Establishing the boundary means that you set it and then don't actively do anything to make sure she sticks to it. It has to be HER CHOICE. And not because you exposed it to the music director.

Now if you told her that if she continued to see the OM, you would tell his W and everyone else in the church about them, then that's setting a boundary and what you did would have been justified because you established that as your boundary.

I think you took this a bit out of context, stuck. The music director had nothing to do with the no contact agreement; W and I agreed to no contact as a condition of me granting "swap out" privileges on weekends with my W. This Christmas program was a "request for exemption" of no contact, which I denied, and got third party input (music director) to emphasize that it wasn't me being an A$$, that others see it as a bad idea as well.

No contact is her choice or she loses swap out privileges. I guess I'm confused at what some people are saying here. I've set a boundary, I can't force her into any decision. If she makes the decision to contact OM, I enforce the boundary of staying put in our home.

[pigskin]

If it sounded like I was whining, it wasn't my intent. Sometimes you just need to b*tch.

It's called a "victim puke" in No More Mr. Nice Guy lingo. Now that you've purged, enforce some boundaries.

I looked but didn't see a transparency agreement. With you out of the way, she is free to wreck your marriage willy-nilly with all-forgiving Jesus on her side.

Make sure that transparency is there.

I would also set a boundary of what constitutes "working on her demons".
Wife, this arrangement is at your request for the purpose of "working on you". You need to be accountable for that. I need to know that you are (for example)
1) meeting weekly with pastor
2) taking your medication
3) interacting positively with the children
4) maintaining transparency
5) maintaining integrity in your communications with me and others (STOP LYING)

If you can not do these simple things, our agreement is null and void. I will be returning to the marital bed within 24 hours for the good of our family. Have I used any words which you do not understand?

Brudda, I know it's hard. Holding my wife accountable is like nailing jello to a wall. I don't always get there.

In this case, SHE wants something (you in an apartment). Only YOU have the power to grant it. SHE will have to live by YOUR terms to get what SHE wants. I can't go into Wal-Mart and demand the 47" LCD TV for $3.99USD. It's their TV. You have the TV. Set the price.
(This should not be taken as an endorsement of moving out, but you got to start somewhere.)

Sometimes strength and honor means taking a blow. Sometimes it means doing some very unpleasant things.
Gird your loins with the WHOLE armor of God and strike a blow for your family.

SpinFree

Thanks for the input Spinfree. You're right, I didn't put a transparency agreement specifically in place. It is implied, through the no contact rule.

But I intend to enforce transparency by doing some spot checking in a way that will catch her if she slips up.

[Kettricken]

This Christmas program was a "request for exemption" of no contact, which I denied, and got third party input (music director) to emphasize that it wasn't me being an A$$, that others see it as a bad idea as well.

I think this is where things get hung up. First, a "request for an exemption of no contact" is already mega-disrespectful to begin with. I don't care if she wanted to feed starving, tubercular children ... if she wanted to do it *with him*, it's unacceptable. Do you see that?

Secondly, these are YOUR boundaries we're talking about here. You, and noone else, has the absolute human right to decide what you will and will not tolerate in your life. Especially in a situation like this, where your wife has been unfaithful and is trying to *negotiate* limited contact with her affair partner. Somewhere in that fogged-out head, she already KNOWS it's wrong. (I'm not a big fan of the "all women test their men" concept that gets paraded around here from time to time, but it this case, I have to agree.) You didn't need to "go ask Dad" in the person of an external authority figure. It makes it seem like you think your position might need buttressing; it makes it look like you're afraid you *might* be being an ass; it makes you look weak. IMHO.

[pigskin]

Thanks for the comments, Kettricken.

You are right, it is disrespectful for her to try to get away with limited contact. She begged and pleaded practically, stating "I won't even be near him", "I can completely ignore him", "I committed to this, they will be so let down".

I have no issue being firm on this, now that I finally have some leverage with her.

As far as being an ass, honestly, I try not to be, unless it is absolutely necessary. She had it firmly in her head that the Christmas show was no big deal, they wouldn't be near each other or talk at all. I was firmly against her being even 1000 yards from him. I just brought in the idea of the music director to show her I'm not being a petty ass. I knew anyone with a role at the church is going to look down on affairs, so I was stacking the deck to prove a point to her.

Had we gotten no input from the director and she decided to play the concert, I would have refused to swap out with her.

[pigskin]

Journaling update:

W has been in better spirits, is seeing an IC, and appears to be a bit happier in our interchanges. She's been honest on two accidental OM encounters - saw him at church and just kept walking, also spoke to him briefly when he accidentally dialed her cell phone and hung up (she had deleted him from the phone and didn't recognize the number that showed up, so she called it back). Both incidents she reported to me.

We went to a Christmas party together and even kissed on the lips at the end of the night (which is very rare nowadays). She also had a nice get together for my birthday and got me a couple of small presents. So although we are separated, she is still keeping me in her life with no animosity. We are going to spend Christmas Eve and the Christmas weekend together in the house with family.

While these are nice steps forward, I'm under no illusions that this is going to get better quickly, if at all. My goals are to have her initiate affection and put her rings back on, which may take months. She has plenty of time to herself now, as I have the kids 5 out of seven days.

I'm doing fine and only have issues when I have expectations for things to move more quickly. But I keep that to myself and continue to act "as if" for the most part. I will admit that it does seem awkward around her now, even when she is in a happy mood.

I don't know if these are good signs or not, but given that I am still committed to saving this marriage, things COULD be worse.

[pigskin]

Journaling:

It was a very nice Christmas with W, in laws, and the kids.

We went to Christmas Eve service at her church, with OM playing in the church music group (ug) but she positioned herself in her chair in such a way that she was not facing him.

Then we attended Christmas mass at my church.

W and I exchanged presents on Christmas just like every other year, even though at the outset of the holidays she said she didn't want me to get her anything since she felt she didn't deserve anything.

She didn't go all out with the gifts, but I really expected nothing from her, so having a sort of "business as usual" Christmas was nice.

She initiated affection a time or two, nothing major, but approached me and gave me a hug and kiss on the cheek, which she doesn't do much anymore. For the 3 days she was home for the holiday we slept in the same bed, although she seems to try to be as far from me as possible on the bed. But in the middle of the night when she is sleeping or half asleep, she sometimes rolls over to be closer to me.

We haven't had any relationship discussions since she moved out, and I don't pursue her at all. But we seem to have stabilized.

One new development was discussions I had with the sister of a close friend I was visiting on Sunday. She's divorced and aware of my situation and lives in the same town as us. She asked if she could call and maybe get together during one of my weekend swap outs to the apartment. I've always considered her like a baby sister, but have been attracted to her since high school.

I certainly don't want to add complications to my situation, but I really miss female companionship, and she probably has a lot of insight, given that she's been through divorce. I have a pretty good sense that she's liked me for a long long time, but then it is up to me to manage the situation and not go to a place that won't help me at all. So I may meet with her just to talk. If anything it will give me something to do during the weekends.

[Greek]

Journaling:



One new development was discussions I had with the sister of a close friend I was visiting on Sunday. She's divorced and aware of my situation and lives in the same town as us. She asked if she could call and maybe get together during one of my weekend swap outs to the apartment. I've always considered her like a baby sister, but have been attracted to her since high school.

I certainly don't want to add complications to my situation, but I really miss female companionship, and she probably has a lot of insight, given that she's been through divorce. I have a pretty good sense that she's liked me for a long long time, but then it is up to me to manage the situation and not go to a place that won't help me at all. So I may meet with her just to talk. If anything it will give me something to do during the weekends.

Aren't you still married?

Have you asked for your priest's input on this idea?

Greek

[pigskin]

Yep, you are right Greek. I was definitely wobbly on getting together with any women, especially anyone I have been attracted to. I did mention to my priest that one of the things that makes the situation difficult is getting attention from other women that should be coming from my wife.

Journaling update:

Today I found out W just linked to the OM on a professional networking site. She stopped over for some things and I called her out on it, saying that maybe I need to be more clear on what constitutes "no contact".

She was irritated that I would consider the link inappropriate, as she is job hunting. I told her anything that acknowledges that the man even exists is inappropriate, since she is in an affair with him. She corrected me by saying she "HAD" an affair with him, past tense.

To clarify I told her anything, from facebook friending to cell phone entries needs to be gone. She said she wasn't willing to drop everything. So I told her that my agreement to swap out to her apartment on weekends is now over. She said, "OK".

I told her if she is not going to drop all contact then I don't want our finances going into the apartment. She said I don't have a choice since I won't let her stay at the house. I told her to split the finances. She said she'd have to get a lawyer, and I told her to do what she needed to do.

I don't think I was over the line here. I don't care if the guy has the best business contacts on the planet, you don't link to him using the excuse that it could help in your job search.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

If that was your boundary, Pig, then that is your boundary, and GOOD JOB on enforcing it!

Puppy