Moving on with my life!

[Startingover2]

I don't want to sound harsh, but it sounds like he wants a 100% comittment from you before he will even begin to make any changes in himself. That is sooooo wrong! He needs to earn the right to have a relationship with you, not the other way around.

I agree. But earning that right to have a relationship with me makes him think again that he is the 'bad guy' and I am perfect. He cannot stand that! Seriously, he throws that in my face all the time. I so do not think that and have told him that, but it feels like he wants me to beg and grovel and then HE will decide.

[bright_new_day]

I agree. But earning that right to have a relationship with me makes him think again that he is the 'bad guy' and I am perfect.

I don't really see it that way. Maybe you need to look at it the way you would look at a new relationship with a stranger. You would have standards and not settle for less, so why settle now?

He cannot stand that! Seriously, he throws that in my face all the time.

Of course he does, he is putting the responsibility back on you.

I so do not think that and have told him that, but it feels like he wants me to beg and grovel and then HE will decide.

Would you do that in a new relationship? If you were to meet someone new wouldn't you want the relationship to be open, honest, caring? Wouldn't yoyu expect to have a relationship of equal give and take? So why expect less from him?

[JAK58]

Hell SO2, Im'e printing this stuff.

25 has givin everyone reading this a lot to think about or remember what we need to keep doing.

I am still keeping up with you.

JAK

[Startingover2]

BND: I don't think I would settle for this stuff from anyone else. In fact, I let go of my first M much easier than this. That was sort of different and I was much younger. We both now say that D was a big mistake. Maybe that is why I am hanging on to this so hard. I didn't want to make another mistake.

Jak: Good to see you. Hope all is well. Yes, 25 does put alot of good info in her posts.

Exh is back to being chatty with the texts today. Must be feeling better. Leaving in awhile for my sons wrestling match out of town tonight. He hasn't said a word yet, so I won't say anything either.

Day 2 of my exercise program. I can hardly walk today. Another 12 lbs and I get back to pre pregnancy weight. That will feel so much better.

[bright_new_day]

BND: I don't think I would settle for this stuff from anyone else. In fact, I let go of my first M much easier than this. That was sort of different and I was much younger. We both now say that D was a big mistake. Maybe that is why I am hanging on to this so hard. I didn't want to make another mistake.

It sounds like lowering your standards and settling for less than you deserve might be the bigger mistake.

[Startingover2]

BND: I don't think I would settle for this stuff from anyone else. In fact, I let go of my first M much easier than this. That was sort of different and I was much younger. We both now say that D was a big mistake. Maybe that is why I am hanging on to this so hard. I didn't want to make another mistake.

It sounds like lowering your standards and settling for less than you deserve might be the bigger mistake.

Agreed. Then what makes him so attractive to me? After all that has gone down with us, why in the heck would I want to go back there? What makes me keep coming back?

Getting ready to leave for a few hours to the match. Just me and baby and pouring rain. Worries me a bit. California drivers don't know how to drive in the rain too well (me included)!

[Reincarnated]

How was the match?

And to answer you question of WHY you are still attracted to him - have you read my sitch recently?

[25yearsmlc]

BND: I don't think I would settle for this stuff from anyone else. In fact, I let go of my first M much easier than this. That was sort of different and I was much younger. We both now say that D was a big mistake. Maybe that is why I am hanging on to this so hard. I didn't want to make another mistake.

It sounds like lowering your standards and settling for less than you deserve might be the bigger mistake.

Agreed. Then what makes him so attractive to me? YOU CAN CHOOSE DIFFERENTLY. BRAD PITT IS HANDSOME TO ME, BIG TIME. BUT IF HE HIT ME I WOULD NOT BE SO ATTRACTED TO HIM B/C MY HEAD WOULD TELL MY HEART TO GET A GRIP. AND I WOULD...WHERE THE HEAD GOES, THE HEART WILL FOLLOW....You have lowered your standards a lot and it has gotten you into a bad place. You can change that and if you don't then it is on you and it is a much bigger mistake. You seem to think you are working hard to save a marriage and we'd all like to help if we could...but the marriage is no more. It ended. (When btw?) So Believe what I said about the head and heart following it, and live by it. Be smart, be strong and enforce the smart boundaries and you can be happy. After all that has gone down with us, why in the heck would I want to go back there? What makes me keep coming back?

We don't know! We just know it's not healthy for you or your kids. Did you really really read that part of my post where I discuss what we are showing our children by our behavior? Anyhow, that's for you to figure out and CHANGE...it's only up to you...you alone honey.


Getting ready to leave for a few hours to the match. Just me and baby and pouring rain. Worries me a bit. California drivers don't know how to drive in the rain too well (me included)!

I recall the wrestling matches we drove 6 hours to see...in Alaska in the winter. Sometimes the tournaments were single elimination and at first our son lost a lot, and we'd drive a total of 12 hours round trip for a 3 minute match or pin...pretty tough sport in a rural state. (Oh, he got a lot better and took the state championship 2 years in a row...but like you, I also had a newborn and those drives were NOT easy with a baby/toddler...I still love the sport though...I digress)

So sounds as if you know this guy is presently, NOT a good bet for you as a romantic interest. I would simply act on the assumption you are not dating now or in the forseeable future and what IS happening is that you two are learning how to be co-parents with this little one. That's all. How can that hurt you? It protects you, it makes you move forward faster, it makes him have to actually say AND do somethings to change the sitch IF he wants to and it may wake him up to the fact that he does have to do the work to get back into your life. NOT by you making demands but by you moving on.... (btw, how's his R with his first xw and their kids?)

I would read nothing into anything he says and only a little into what he does. But As my db coach said, you can "applaud loudly for the 1% he does that is positive" and "listen like a lover or friend" when he discusses his life's struggles with drinking or work or in general (assuming NO OW discussions)...so that your time together will be pleasant and encouraging for him. I think he's a guy who usually lately, does not feel good about himself. That doesn't make him a good bet but at least if you help him feel comfortable enough he'll pick the baby up when he's supposed to. So you two have a child. Not a marriage, not a family. Deal with what is, not what you wish you had, or what has been lost and cannot be regained. An event happend that changed you and you cannot ever be who you were before. But just like losing a child would devastate me, I like to think that at some point I'd focus on what I could create with my remaining children and loves in my life and not on the child/family that existed before, which I cannot ever have back.

If you get to a point where he wants more and is clear about it, then and only then, should you be mentally spending energy on this. MOVING ON does not mean giving up. It means being real, mature, and moving forward in your life.

You can't bring up the past unless he does and even then, I'd validate what's true for him, by saying you understand his views. If he revises things TOO MUCH and or blames you for things HE did, then you can say "I don't see it that way so I guess we have to agree to disagree" and drop it. NO two people see the past the same way anyhow. That's really true and you must accept that no matter what happens even if he wanted back in 110% and showed it clearly, you would not be able to say "let's NOW discuss all the things that happened and why and why and why and more details and more details and blah blah blah..." it is NOT important to your future! That behavior hampers things so much and makes the obstacles so insurmountable. If you ever do believe that he "Gets it" (and you know that he does NOT GET IT as of now),) then you would not need to address the past. He'd own it, without going into excruciating detail, and you two would need only to agree on what it takes to move forward...like a new R that BND was discussing.

SInce that's not happening, drop it. HE cheated on you, more than once. He wouldn't stop the contact and though some argue that it can take time to do that --some DBers say that too--he has had plenty of time. And for the life of me, I don't know why you hang onto this man when the M was so short and had problems early on and .....well, you get the point. Maybe you fear he's your last chance. Don't know. Is your family all in the same area you are and have you thought of relocating to an area where you can get a job?

Oh for the record, don't lend ex h's money unless they need life saving surgery, (and maybe not even then)....it's a boundary a normal healthy woman would know by now, and frankly, I would have acted as if he was joking when he wanted you to "order something for him too" since....since what? Since you were moving your fingers anyhow?? Why not try -and it's mandatory you do this without showing any anger but more like teasing him and using humor but to make a point--something like, --
"'you're kidding, right? OMG you are not serious, you are too funny xh!!, ....yeah, I'm gonna order something for you ((=lend you money???WTH??)) b/c...b/c ....um, b/c you can't do it yourself b/c...um b/c your fingers don't work and the computer is two feet away and that's too far for you to move b/c you had a hard day or you don't know how to work a computer or what?? "

And think this to yourself: "Gee, Xh with our history of financial wealth and stability, you are a pretty great risk for me to assume. Oh, What's that? The banks and siblings and friends and employer won't lend you money? They won't give you an advance b/c you are a poor risk? Hmmm, so I should...b/c....because....because I once loved you and we have a child together?? Oh, no, no no.... those are the reasons why I'm the LAST person you should have the gall to ask this of.

S2, just this ONE thing he asked you to do is a big flag to me.

He may not have had nefarious motives but hey, that was selfish and clueless to ask of you. Period. Sure, the "while you are there anyhow can you get my prescription too?" request is not weird or unreasonable UNLESS YOU PAID FOR IT...dear God, tell me you didn't!! If you did, and if he did NOT pay you the moment you walked in the door, then he's a mooch.

If he presses you on borrowing money, you can sympathetically tell him what you'd tell ME if I asked you to do that, which is you "don't have the money to support him (or ME)". You know, you 're a mom with kids to feed and there's no extra there...

And you don't have to be angry or blame him for asking, b/c it's too awkward for you anyhow and I sense you are very conflict avoidant. When he goes into his details about his money woes, Just say you're sorry HE'S having those issues but it's a tough time for all of us and say "it's just not something I can do for you" and maybe suggest he go to a bank. When he says whatever he says then, sympathize and move on....diff topic. b/c the money issues are only going to worsen things and are not all his fault I assume.

Let's be brutally frank ladies, most people (most judges and that's what matters) don't see prior marriages as retirement checks for us to live off of the rest of our lives. When m's that are not long term m's, fail today, it's assumed that both parties will support themselves at some point. YES I know there are exceptions for long term m's and when the disparity incomes is huge (fwiw, I'm a L) but I only know maybe 2 women my age who think they're owed a check the rest of their lives for a m that failed long ago and a child(ren) who is out of the house now. WE ALL need to prepare for RL when we may be single and will need to support ourself or if married, we may have to support our hs' if they become disabled. S2, Even if the CS you get now from your 1st h is enough, they'll be out of the house sometime and you have to have a plan that does not depend on a man. Make sense? Why not take an online class now? Explore some things you always wondered about and just are interested in so you'll enjoy that part of "School"...

(I know the importance of always taking at least one "fun" class, to keep interested) and look into some practical things that you can do to earn some bucks that may not take as long as a 4 yr degree, (perhaps while you also work on getting one?) Just a suggestion. Some women find paralegal training, or real estate, or criminal justice fields or court reporting, to be of interest and they are usually able to get some sort of work. Just thoughts off the top of my head. I don't know what interests you or whether you're more the artsy type, who can produce something of beauty or the literary type who can edit (I've done that part time and it pays reasonably well and you can do it from home and I LOVE it when the authors are good ones, and they pay better too) or write free lance.

See, once you stop spending all this time and energy on him, the world will show you many opportunities that you are not "awakened to" yet.

I believe where the head goes, the heart will follow.. And I also heard a quote I liked the other day that IS sexist, but wth? It's mostly women reading this anyhow...I think

She said, "While Men have 'mid life crises' that tend to screw up their lives along with a bunch of other's lives, We women don't do that. We have awakenings..." We don't "NEED" this crap in our lives and we won't take it anymore! S2, Have your awakening soon, please.

You have endured 18 months (or more!) of an imbalanced M that ended in divorce. Finally, after all this pain, your xh may, MAY be interested in more fatherly involvement with the child you two have. That's what you know. None of that should stop you from moving on in your life. In fact it should make it easier b/c if you can have him watch the d on a regular basis you can take a class or get a part time job or do something with that time other than watching them/him.

Why are you hanging around for "pretend unity" family time? That's enabling him to avoid being a single parent like you are most of the time, that's hindering the bonding they could be making, and it's making you STUCK there by your own choice. Why? If he can't drive her somewhere, so be it. At the very least take a class online while he's there so he sees that you are DOING something which doesn't require anything of him...and is independent of him. Why does he have to watch her at your place anyhow? I would greatly prefer the time to be your mysterious YOU time or just time you get out of the house and do something creative =180 time! Be interesting and interested.

True, I'm not familiar with the logistics of your sitch. Fill me in but not on why you cant' do anything but how you can.

One other thing--I set an internal & unspoken timeline in my head that was a GUIDE for me to aim for. I figured if things were not moving forward hugely, by a certain deadline, I'd end the m and be done. I needed this for me so I'd know that my limbo was not forever. I never told H this as it was not an ultimatum. It was just for me to ease my fears about how long I'd put up with things.

But we had a d in high school though and so for me, it was mentally easy to set the date, i.e., when she graduated. I'd have fulfilled my promise to her that we'd stay in one place for that time, I would then reassess. (H and I had promised all our children they'd go to one high school as we'd moved around a lot due to military careers. H wanted the promise to be kept - even if only by me. So there was no pressure on me to move for instance.) How old are your kids? Do they all live with you? Again, what are the logistics in your life? Why do you get them at 7 at night on your nights? That sounds so late to me. Why not pick them up at school and ask how their day was (my kids tell me 90% of their "inside info" either at bedtime or pick up time and since you have a little one who probably consumes the bedtime efforts,...seems like picking the kids up would be a good chance to bond PLUS it saves on daycare if you are paying for after school programs...or is it wrestling? Why this arrangement?

Details S2, so we can better help /advise. Ages, R's with their other dad, is he remarried? If not, any interest there? What is the money sitch, your career plans and educational levels, your x h's -both- and their careers?

Good luck, be strong. You have not died or become catatonic despite all that has gone on so you know what? You really don't Need him. You are alive and well. You have proved that--b/c here you are. So now you have to go get yourself the life you want and that you choos to lead. You've been stuck for too long. And in case you feel a bit of self pity that we ALL do sometimes, here's something I haven't shared in awhile but will pass on now.

You have several healthy loving children and you get enough money to support yourself for now at least. That puts you in the top 3% of women world wide. No one is shooting at you, no one is dragging your son off to join a rebel "army" in Africa, no one tells you how to worship, or that you have to cover your face in public and only go outside w/a male relative accompanying you or you'll be HURT, no one is raping you or your d's or taking all your money in random acts of theft sanctioned by the corrupt police and government as happens in most 3rd world nations.

No former friend or neighbor wants to hack off your limbs b/c you are not a Hutu tribal member like them (that actually happened to 800k Rwandans in our life time). There is medicine if you or yours need it. There's food in the electric refrigerator --and there will be food there tomorrow too...there is shelter over your head--and there will be tomorrow.

These realizations hit me when I was hospitalized while pregnant. I was sick and worried and then felt self pity and fear. I had a window in my room and when I looked out and saw this huge full moon. At first it pained me more, I still felt miserable b/c it was beautiful but I was not asleep in my own bed, and I was so tired and just wanted to rest..."why can't I stop coughing? OMG It hurts and etc" Then, seeing the moon up there so large and looming and so clear, I suddenly realized a million other women in the world, somewhere, were also pregnant and seeing that same moon...I felt unity with them...and then something else...

Though I felt miserable with pneumonia, and H was on call so I had no one visiting me then, still, I was in a hospital with an IV making me feel better , and not in a field under a tarp or in a corrugated metal tin shack with debris and dirty water everywhere. My baby was probably just fine. At that moment looking at this huge moon and it looking back on me, I felt a wave of gratitude sweep over me, for being who I was, where I was and how I was. We are luckier than most. When we are clear about that fact, we must make more of our lives for those women who truly cannot.


(( j ))

[Reincarnated]

wow...SO2, are you listening? I know I am...

[JAK58]

So am I!

JAK