I gave you a big ole apology on your other thread, and it's heartfelt, too. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, then you'll find it soon enough. SH!T! Well, I'm sorry, and I hope you'll still talk to me cause this post you made here is the first real, honest thing I've seen from you... and with that, you can overcome almost anything.
I don't think your wife and you are growing apart. I think you and your wife are having some severe boundary issues, and some really HUGE communication problems.
I can go on to explain, but I got all pious on you on your other thread and I need to go upstairs for a bit to feel sorry for myself, and... I gotta wait to see if you are going to still talk to me.
CeMar, While Corri is upstairs licking her wounds, how about if we chat for a little. Corri is really good at this so I do hope you'll be willing to accept her apology and talk with her. Until then...
A tip on the anger thing (Disclaimer: This is not a tip on getting your wife to change or getting her to understand your feelings. It is a tip on nurturing more tolerable feelings for your wife for you .) In some of your other posts you show that you understand that your wife didn't do anything intentionally to hurt you. She's no more responsible for what her hormones do to her sex drive or how her brain is wired for sex than you are for yours. You already realize this. Usually when someone unintentionally hurts us, anger is not so strong. However, she's not doing anything to improve the situation and that may make you angry. It seems like she's just ignoring your needs. That looks and feels intentionally hurtful. People usually get really angry then!
BUT, you know how hard things are looking to you with the changes you're going to have make for yourself? You don't really know where to begin and it doesn't feel natural. It feels forced and uncomfortable. You're concerned you won't be able to be "sincere" enough. Maybe you also don't really "get" why conversation, romance, sharing feelings are so important (We're assuming what your W wants here. At this point we don't really know.) Do I have a handle on what you're feeling about the changes you're looking at making?
That's what your wife is feeling too when it comes to having sex. Use your own experience of what making difficult changes feels like to nurture your compassion rather than anger for her. You'll feel better.
I've seen lots of people recommending The Five Love Languages. I've skimmed it so I can't really comment. But I liked what I skimmed through. Pick up a copy and read it in front of your wife. Don't say anything. Just read it. Make sure she can see the title. She asks anything, let her know you're trying to find new way(s) to show your love for her. Just a small step, no deep, difficult conversation at this point.
One thing I think you need to be careful about is assuming you know what will make her feel loved. If you have a hard time opening up a conversation about this with her, this might help get the ball rolling. (Be sure to leave the book out where she can pick it up when you're not reading it. )
One more thing, get yourself into the mindset of doing these things because YOU want to make some positive, life-enhancing changes for yourself. Don't do these things with the idea that the changes will only be deemed successful if the result is more sex. 'Cause if you keep this latter mindset, then your wife will be right when she feels like she "owes" you if you make these changes.
I will try to combine my messages onto this thread. It is very obvious that my wife and I have grown apart. She tells me we have nothing in common (other then 17 years of relationship and 3 boys). She tells me she is no longer attracted to me. She tells me I am boring. She tells me that sex is no big deal, that she would be fine if she never had it again. She is unhappy with her body image. She is premenopausal. She came from a divorced, completely dysfuntional family. Her natural mother and a somewhat adoptive mother are 2 of the most fridgid women I have ever met. So it appears that I have my work cut out for me. This is NOT the way the marriage started. She USED to be very sexed. We made love every day, we slept naked together (I absolutely LOVED this), she flirted, she loved to kiss, she loved to touch me. Now there pretty much is NONE of this. All intimacy comes from me to her, there is nothing the other way. She probably has not really touched me in an intimate fashion in 8 years, since our last child was born. We do have sex about twice a month, ALWAYS initiated by me, and she usually has a couple of orgasims, so she does like sex to some degree, but she also says things that make it obvious that she is doing this for me, like it is a chore. I DO NOT WANT A WILLINGNESS FOR SEX, THAT IN EFFECT RUINS SEX.
I have read parts of DB and SSM and I know that I have to have a beginners mind, and that I have to stay optimistic. I have been trying to set up goals for my relationship. But man, when I look at the goals that I list and then think where my wife is today, it's like she has a MILLION miles to go before we get to these goals. I am not even sure where to concentrate my efforts as to get the biggest bang for the buck as soon as possible, to keep my spirits up.
I KNOW that I have to learn to meet my wifes needs, and this will DEFINITELY not be an easy task for me. Will these things improve our marriage, probably a big yes, particularily for my wife. Is that enough for my marriage, NO! Both my wifes needs AND my needs have to be met. I HATE the feeling that I want something in return, but I know I do. Even the bible tells men to love their wifes, even if they do not return the love. I keep reminding myself of this, BUT MAN THIS IS HARD. I almost feel like a martyr, that I must give up all my happiness so that my wife and children can have great lives. I tell myself that God would not want me to be selfish and to forget about my needs, just keep the family together and keep the wife and children happy. I know that my marriage sucks right now, but if I keep my faith, that God will give me the relationship I need sometime in the future. But how freakin' long will that be?
Welp, since you didn't cuss me out, I'm assuming that you are at least willing to overlook my pious trip. My thanks.
Guy, I think one of the very important things you really need to do is pull back a bit from looking at 'all the problems' the two of you must overcome. It's like you are looking at the entire forest, and right now I think you need to focus on a few trees. In other words, let's break this down into some manageable chunks, and start with a few issues. You will be working toward the end goal, but you need a few small victories under your belt or you are going to continue to feel despondent.
You are absolutely correct when you say that in order for you and your wife to have a happy marriage, both of your needs must be met. There are things you can do to work on yourself, but one of the very most important things you need to do, first, is sit down and have a honest conversation with your wife about the state of your marriage.
I don't know how she'd react to it, but what if you and she just left the house for a few hours together to have a chat (DO NOT BRING UP SEX). You really need to find out where she stands... I know you've said she thinks you're boring, that you don't have anything in common, etc. But that's not what I'm talking about.
You need to have the conversation where you both understand that neither one of you are as happy as you'd like to be in your marriage, and you need to ask her, "if there was a way to make us happy again, would you be willing to explore that with me?"
This is the type of general conversation I'm talking about. Try not to bring up real specific issues... don't worry you will have time to get to them. But what you need to re-establish with her is an open line of communication. You just need to start talking again, in an honest fashion. You need to hear her, and she needs to hear you. If she asks you, "is this about you getting more sex?" Tell her no, this conversation has nothing to do with that. This conversation is about the two of you agreeing that you both feel it is important 'to get off the roller coaster.' Do you understand?
If you can at least get from the conversation that she is willing to work with you, tell her THANK YOU and end the conversation, okay? At this point, all we need her to be is 'open to negotiation.'
You are correct when you said, "MAN THIS IS SO HARD." Damn straight, it's hard. This is probably one of the hardest things you will ever do in your life. But YOU CAN do this. It is possible. You are just going to have to be patient. And the road to patience is paved with empathy and tolerance. If you can truly empathize and tolerate your wife's point of views and really 'hear' them, you will be able to teach her how to be the same with you.
Leave the desire thing alone for a bit, k? That's on down the road, and we'll get there. Promise.
Corri is really good at this so I do hope you'll be willing to accept her apology and talk with her. Until then...
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