...I have an almost overwhelming urge to meet with her and tell her my thoughts, again, about the incident and its role in our current situation; tell her that she has a soft landing spot when the A implodes or she chooses to end it; and that we could achieve complete and unconditional forgiveness for each other if we both work on our M. However, I can't wait forever - I will move on. I want a companion - I want again what I had with WAW. Is my urge premature or out of line?
You can't tell her any of this stuff, it will be perceived as weak, it's just talk, no action.
You want to switch it up, go on a date with another woman, start dating other women, stop contacting her, appear to move on and see what it does for her ;-)
You aren't going to get anywhere doing what you're doing and you aren't going to convince her of your logic of a great marriage because she is in la-la land and they don't understand your language over there.
Just saying, now you've been told.
LOL so true!
M44 H41 M20 T23 3 older teens Bomb Nov 09 "i'm not happy" EA Nov 09 w/coworker Another PA in Mar 10 I Filed Apr 10 D final Dec 10
I am leery of "dating" any other women right now. I have had social plans (coffee and dinner) with other women. Ironically in this town of 60,000 people, both women were only one degree of separation from my WAW. One was a sorority daughter of one of her new man-hating divorcee friends, and the other was the little sister of her best appropriate male friend at the school where she regularly subs. I expect word will filter back to her that I am desirable to others.
She has definitely seen me moving on and GALing. She has even received emails and comments from friends about seeing me at running events, and how good I look because I have lost so much weight. :-)
GALing-taking adult ed. classes, rearranging the furniture in our house, running every race at 10K or below in the area, losing 30 pounds, new nicer clothes, kicked up the wardrobe from khaki pants casual to wool pants upscale casual each day, new glasses that I wear in public, getting more involved in church and other activities, meeting new F friends without "really" trying.
As far as communications. I have strictly limited it to business, except for one supportive text before a grad school presentation she made last Mon (first non-business in a month). I don't plan to do any more extraneous texts for a long while.
I am reasonably pleasant but slightly detached when we talk. I always push to end our discussions on the phone or in person.
I always have plans instead of watching our boys when she last minute asks-kinda common unfortunately-during her time. Her changes are never stated to be with OM, but she tries to make herself open now during the times when they were together in the past. She has them <50% anyway.
I will avoid talk about our R.
She knows what I think about each of those R topics anyway.
I definitely do not want to appear weak. It has taken me a long time to dig out from being a world class groveler. :-)
I am leery of "dating" any other women right now. I have had social plans (coffee and dinner) with other women. Ironically in this town of 60,000 people, both women were only one degree of separation from my WAW. One was a sorority daughter of one of her new man-hating divorcee friends, and the other was the little sister of her best appropriate male friend at the school where she regularly subs. I expect word will filter back to her that I am desirable to others.
AS long as you are not giving your date the impression that it's anything more than social, I don't see why you can't enjoy female company.
Which may ratchet up feelings of jealousy when she hears how much fun her friend had with you...
Me: 44, Wife: 39 M: 17 years T: 20 years Bomb on 08/25/09 1/13/10: MC started 1/28/10, 2/8/10: More bombs 8/28/10: Wife moved out No talk of D, no movement
I have been clear to them and they have been clear to me in response that friends are friends. I am thankful that they have all been pleasant on the eyes.
I was just asked (I accepted) to dinner Saturday night by the most pleasant of them.
Yes, I am glad to have plans for Saturday night instead of home cleaning.
I have considered calling the DB coaches and I likely will do so soon. I have had my two boys for 8 days straight, so I gotta play a little catch up ball first.
I truly believe she is telling the truth about the incident because the fear I saw 18 years ago was real and palpable when we started making love while dating.
Not to pat myself on the back, but I am a trustworthy person (alluding to your comment from a previous post). I think for several reasons, she found me trustworthy. We met through a mutual friend who was a great college friend of her BFF. So the introduction was not a "picked up in a bar" situation. I am decent looking, well dressed, and clean. I held an extremely responsible, well-paid job then as now. We took escalating the physical part of our relationship very slow. First date Aug 27, first kiss Sep 6, first time exploring each other was Sept 13. First time making love together was a few weeks later. I can't believe I am saying this ...
The fact that she shot down the significance of the incident when I brought it up to her later (because of the weak and strong theme), I think, reinforces my thought that her incident happened pretty much as she said. She denied that the incident had any effect on her, and she "worked through it herself."
Her exact words the initial time she told me about were "<he-name withheld> r#ped me on the floor of his fraternity house." I don't think she could have made up that story.
I have never caught her in a lie, even a white lie or a quibble, until her EA started in March or so of this year. She told me about the incident about 4 months before the EA got started.
Another theme I have heard from WAW, and she has told everyone, when questioned about the OM is that "he's easy and comfortable." When I stated that I am easy and comfortable, she responded with "you used to be with me, but now I am walking on eggshells." The walking on eggshells was related to her "mad about everything" theme. I just remembered this theme - there have been so many.
She has words of affirmation and quality time as her LL's. I have been reasonably pleasant, but sticking to business. As part of DBing, should I be more chatty and smiley to be "easy and comfortable"?
I personally believe her self-esteem is low b/c of the rape. She probably needs words of affirmation to help with that. Somewhere along the way, she began to feel a lot of pressure in the MR and now I think she's finding a way of escape.
She needs to feel important (like knowing she is first place with you). Men think woman should "know" that they are first b/c of how he works, etc. However, with her feelings, I think she needed an emotional intimatcy with you. In other words.....more conversation than just about kids, weather, etc. She probably wanted to hear about how you "feel" about things. However, now is not the time to talk about your feelins b/c of the R problems. If she talks....be sure you stop everything when she says something and look directly into her eyes. That tells her that what she says matters a lot to you.
Instead of saying the usual "lines" that H's get into a habit in complementing their W's.......say something specific about whatver it is you are praising her about. For example, don't just say, "Hone, that sure was a great dinner you prepared", tell her what part you like or how she prepared it (don't over kill). See what I mean. Same thing about how she looks when going out. Don't just say the usual, "You look nice" but find something new to say specifically about why she looks nice.
Being chatty is not necessarily what she may want right now. AT one time, she may have.......but most WAW's do not want that. But, given this special circumstances.....I would suggest that you show enough interest and response in a conversation that she will know you aren't being cold or withdrawn. A LBH just has to be real careful or he will over kill.
Show that you are upbeat. That would be when you flash the smiles.
IDK about doing whatever you can do that makes her feel "safe" and secure in the R. But again......you need to ask a DB Coach about this. It is not the advice that is normally given to a LBS.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I tried calling a DB Coach, but they close at 4pm Mtn time. I will call tomorrow. It would probably be quickest for them to read this entire thread, then get back to me after they have done so.
I also believe her low self-esteem and feelings of self loathing are due to the rape. Not giving her enough love in her LLs (words of affirmation and quality time) did not help. (She got a lot of gifts and acts of service and seemed very happy with them in the past).
BTW-I asked her to read the chapter of 5LL entitled "Loving the Unlovable." The situation is pretty similar except the H in the chapter was WAY worse than my worst behavior to his W. In the book, the H's LL were physical affection with words of affirmation secondary - just like mine. Strikingly, my WAW and I both hurt each other the most based on LLs. She did not get enough affirmation, and her EA/PA hurts a physical affection person the most. I asked her response to the chapter, and she said "That woman is a better Christian than I am." Of course, she was not willing to try similar baby steps in our M when I asked her.
Last night was S7's Christmas program at school. I actually got a text 30 min. beforehand from her saying she saved me a seat! I responded thanks and be there in a bit.
She looked awful, bags under eyes, nails to the nub, very gaunt.
I, on the other hand, thought I looked good. I was still in my nicer work clothes with new glasses. I saw her checking out the new glasses. I also am 180ing by growing out my nails - stress has kept them clipped very short for months - and wearing my college class ring on my wedding ring finger.
She asked how I was doing and I told her great! (See my previous post about Sat night dinner plans). (She was doing "OK".)
My WAW is definitely in first place (my W social friends clearly know this) and my WAW does not know my new W friends. Now I wonder if I should be out and about socially with other women.
She inquired about pictures of our boys from last weekend when S4 and S7 rode a Santa train with me then we cut a Christmas tree from the forest. I smilingly told her they are on my facebook page, and she can friend me to see them. She astonishingly asked "you are on facebook?" Yes, I responded with enthusiasm. (Facebook is a 180, and a fun one with old friends giving HUGE support for me now).
We talked a bit - she was friendly with lots of eye contact but made a point of telling me that she borrowed a camera from "a friend" to take pictures at the program. I brought ours too. As if she would borrow a camera from a stranger or an enemy - I bit it off before I said it.
Is OM just "a friend" when he is #@*&ing her? I am so sick of "friend" that I could scream.
The friend comment ended any further levity from me.
I saw the first real social interaction with WAW since the separation as a win for the DBing LBH.
I have always been using please and thank you in all communications - NOT a 180, but something I think she appreciates.
The idea to completely focus on her I will do more fully. I have also been practicing "I can see why you feel that way" and "I am sorry you feel that way" to make them seem more natural when they will be needed to validate her feelings.
She texted and wanted to go into our house to get another hat for our S4 while I was at work today. I have given a boundary that I do not want her to come in our house when I am not there. Perhaps a test on her part? My response was that I prefer she not do so and that I will bring the hat to her apt before work tomorrow. I was polite but firm.
So I see now I must change the entry keypad so she can't get in. I have asked twice to get her house key back, and I asked again as part of the hat-related texting.
I will email my A about changing the locks.
Thanks for reading and ALL comments are GREATLY appreciated.
