Please Give Me Help

[TrentC]

Thoughts? Is her projecting "anger" just a typical WAW thing?

It can be; she could be gaslighting or rewriting history in her head.

I think you're on the right track; stay calm, cool, and collected.

[sandi2]

It's pretty hard for the WAW to see the changes come after she's left the M. As you've read before, "why did you have to wait until I left to do what I had been asking" seems to be the mantra. The WAW is so completely opposite of the spectrum from the LBH is her way of thinking. He has just finally reached the place she had been pulling and tugging on him to join her years ago. So, yeah, she p*ssed that it took spliting the R apart to wake you up and get your butt to moving.

If she can get past the anger, then she'll start to reach some of the next stages (hopefully). So stick with it.

[njcbailey]

Thanks again sandi2.

I agree my 180s were overdue. But here we are. I have been arrow straight about them since the first 180 though. (She stipulates to the 180s). For a long time during last summer, she kept asking "Why now?" about the changes. My answer was consistently that I hit bottom (like a drunk) and could not envision life without our M and our boys and the changes showed how I (finally) listened and love her and our boys. There was never much response from her to my answer until she just said it's too late.

I have heard from several sources who know WAW well that her anger being projected at me is more than just about our marriage. I have heard it now from four different people who know us, our marriage, and our life very well.

One other theme that was appearing during the summer (but is no longer) as the EA was ramping up is that WAW said she is no longer "weak" by staying in our M. She will be "strong" by getting a D. This broken record over a few months led me to think about why a woman who has never said such things would do so. Hang on, here goes...

About a year ago now, she, matter of factly, in a dispassionate voice, told me her first time was a r#pe in college. I was floored. She had dated a "male" for about 9 months who told her he loved her, then the "incident" occurred, on the floor of his fraternity house. She broke off with him right away. I met her two months later, and, until recently were exclusively "with" each other. She has told me of her dating this male several times over the years and only mentioned the "incident" after we had been together 17 years.

I know for a fact that she never received any counseling about the incident. She did have IC for anorexia a couple of years after we were married. The incident never was mentioned.

OK. I am not trying to minimize my contributions to the state of our marriage or shirk any blame. I am standing up for them and have fixed my parts as much as I can and stand ready to work on the rest by myself and as a committed couple.

Since so many people have said the same thing about the depth of WAWs anger, I wonder if it is more than me, but I am just a convenient target. In fact, one man who is close to both of us has said there is even more than the two things because there is so much anger!

I spoke to her about the "incident" and how I thought it may be contributing. She said I was shirking my responsibility, and it is just me. I was so convinced that this is an issue that I told her Mom (with whom she is close). WAW had never said anthing to her Mom either. She told me she didn't need to talk to anyone then or now about the incident because she "worked it out herself" a long time ago.

I am not a C. However, it is my understanding that it is common for people who experience severe trauma of some sort (her V was VERY important to her) often revert to a similar place later. The evidence for her "being back in college" as follows:

1. Living in apt and financially supported by Mom.
2. Has boyfriend, and lots of female friends in "party mode."
3. Taking a grad class. Registered for 3 more grad classes.
4. Has a part-time job (substitute teacher at OM's school).
5. Wants and takes zero responsibility for the "adult" portions of our life or M (e.g., mortgage, day care costs).
6. Has our S7 and S4 less than 40% of the time - rarely on weekends, as it has worked out.
7. Almost will not admit to being married, she is so gone. Acts as if there is no marriage.

I broached IC with her in the vein that it has helped me so much and she is still the mother of our boys. WAW absolutely refuses to go to IC since we met with our MC last during Sept. She first said she couldn't miss a sub job. I told her I would watch our boys, make an after hours appt. No response. Next, she said "money is a little tight." I told her it is covered by our insurance, and I would write her a check right then to cover any out of pocket costs. She responded that "She only has anger towards herself, and she is working through it herself."

I believe IC for her (not about the incident, per se) would be a huge turning point. Pressure from me would keep her away from IC, I'm sure.

Brutally honest comments are welcomed - particularly a female perspective on the "incident" or the depth of anger.

[njcbailey]

I searched but could not find. What is gaslighting?

There is a lot of revisionist history with my WAW. For instance, "there have never been any good times" in our 16-year marriage.

[TrentC]

I searched but could not find. What is gaslighting?

Wikipedia entry on gaslighting

Gaslighting is a form of intimidation or psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim, making them doubt their own memory and perception.

There is a lot of revisionist history with my WAW. For instance, "there have never been any good times" in our 16-year marriage.

Yep. Don't put any stock in it.

[njcbailey]

Any thoughts about the incident as related in my previous post?

All of my 180s started before she physically left the marriage. She acknowledged the changes right away but never gave more positives than a few initial thank yous. She acknowledged the sum total of the changes on the way out the door and even called them "great."

[TrentC]

Any thoughts about the incident as related in my previous post?

What prompted her to bring it up, after 17 years together?

I don't know what to think. It was obviously traumatic, and probably shaped things in your relationship in ways that you can't even begin to guess.

If you think that this disclosure is related to her current behavior, then I think asking her to go to counseling as part of any potential reconciliation would be wise.

[njcbailey]

I can only think WAW brought up the incident as part of this larger MLC, self-examination of who she is, where she has been, and where she is going process she seems to be having. It was so dispassionate, so matter-of-fact, it was almost as if she had been talking about a movie. The words about the incident were scary; the delivery was terrifying (in retrospect)!

At this point, WAW is not considering reconciliation at all. I am the problem in her life, you see. Without me keeping her down, making her feel worthless, etc. she is fine, as she has said.

I am very concerned about her getting into IC as the mother of our S7 and S4. I realize it is out of scope, but I asked my attorney to see if her attorney would broach IC with her. My attempts to get her to IC have met complete failure. My attorney asked me if I thought this D initiation was part of a phase. I told her yes, because my MIL has said my WAW is in MLC in Sept. Of course, when I asked MIL to see if WAW would put D on hold until MLC was over, MIL said that WAW has to do "what makes her happy." No moral compass from MIL. No thoughts about responsibility.

The single Dad thing and being the adult is very challenging. Patience is hard to keep. Many hours, days, weeks, I just want the D to be done. I miss having my warm wife next to me on these cooold MT nights.

[njcbailey]

Tomorrow night is S7's holiday program at school. S7 and S4 have been with me for the past 7 days, so they will be very focused on my WAW, probably to the point of ignoring me. She likes to smugly insinuate that she should have more time with them when they act that way.

I most likely will not know anyone else with whom I could sit. I don't want to snub my WAW, but I don't want to appear too friendly.

This is the first event of this nature since WAW left our home.

Do I sit with WAW and S4 or find a seat wherever?

Another question: When we talk or correspond, I always use "our" when referring to our boys, home, car, etc. Should I say "the" instead?

[njcbailey]

As a woman (same name as my WAW), thoughts about the "incident" and anger?