Donna--finding herself #37

[goldeylox]

Donna, I am facing the 'fake it for the holidays' sitch myself. You are asking yourself some good questions. Your answer (not like I have any answers, mind you) may lie somewhere between having better boundaries and fewer expectations.
I attended a social function w/ H recently after he said I was overthinking it...but, I had really good boundaries. It worked, and I actually had a little fun. love, Goldey

[Reincarnated]

People react to you by how you make them FEEL. I have been asking myself, how do I make in-laws feel? ex?

Is this what I want?

What DO I want? And am I strong enough to follow through?

Blech.

[Reincarnated]

Did anyone read Tnglator's recent post?
That is my real fear....I don't know what to say to him.

[goldeylox]

Balance, dear Donna...People are in charge of their own feelings.
I went through a similar thought process in January. Thought I was bringing everyone down. Wet blanket at the party.
It's one thing if you walk in and are rude to people. Of course they will react. But...if you simply show up, act 'as if', most people can handle it.
I think the holidays stir some of this stuff up. Expectations and all that jazz.
Hey, I have a new thread. Can you come visit sometime? love, Goldey

[oldtimer]

"People react to you by how you make them FEEL."

Indeed.

[hoosiermama]

"People react to you by how you make them FEEL."

Indeed.

I'm sorry, but no one makes anyone else feel anything. That is taking way too much responsibility. One can contribute to an outcome by their behavior, but that is all.

[oldtimer]

Absolutely -- there is only so much influence our actions have on others, which can no doubt be frustrating, lol. On the bright side, you are also right that though we can't control the reactions of others, we can still very much shape the personal space around us by how we behave around people. Though our power remains limited, creating positive space is the best thing we can do to invite positive Rs and positive interactions into our lives.

[oldtimer]

Donna,

If I had to guess, I'd guess that you've gotten closer to a point where you don't count the sibs not hating or abandoning their brother as a betrayal of you. This gives them much more space to be close to you.

Also, what I was sort of hinting at before, for some reason, can't quite say why, I'd also guess that they've somehow gotten a more objective/balanced perspective on things themselves -- perhaps because they've had more interactions with XH's GF, perhaps because they have learned more of what went on during the A, perhaps because XH is getting to a more objective place himself and has backed off of demonizing you? (The WASs and LBSs both demonize each other pretty well, lol.) Anyway, who knows.

Here, though, is the challenge you face: as they warm up, you'll feel less needy/less abandoned/less victimized. You'll feel less like the damaged little girl when you are with them and more like a strong adult. The question for the strong adult is: do you really want to have Rs with the sibs? They'll largely be new Rs, and they'll always be some old emotional overhead with them. Perhaps the benefits outweigh the costs for you. That is up to you to decide. They won't ever be just family again though. That can be OK. Just make sure that you feel the choice, own the choice, recognize it as your choice.

Being friends (not family) with Ex-in-laws is not something you "should do" to prove you are healthy. Just like any friendship, such Rs should be freely chosen and welcomed into your life because they enhance your life. If you rekindle (neokindle, lol) the Rs with the sibs, do it only for the sake of that kind of genuine friendship. You don't need to prove anything to anyone here, even yourself. There is nothing to prove.

What about ADD meds? Have you ever tried something like Adderall? I'm telling you, they work quickly (not like anti-depressants) and you can use them only when you want.

As for XH. Again, you have nothing to prove there with respect to friendship. And, trying to be his friend has nothing to do with whether you love him or not.

Suppose a woman is molested by her father. As an adult, she might still love her father, she might even forgive her father, she might be in some amazing place of self-evolution in which she's really dealt with all the old stuff. Yet, suppose she still chose not to have an R with her father. There would be nothing unhealthy about that, nothing stuck about that. There would be nothing in that to suggest she did not love her father or that she did not forgive him. She would simply be choosing not to include an R in her life that wouldn't work well for her.

I think your co-dependence shines brightly when you try to figure out what your Rs with XH and his sibs mean about YOU. Whether or not you should stop being dark, whether you should be friends with EX-family... Your focus is on what it says about you rather than on the value of the R and the other person in the R for him/herself. In a nutshell, you are taking how they react to you, interact with you as proof about something about yourself. It is not proof. They are not you. They are not a mirror for you. You have nothing to prove to them. It will not help you to try to prove something to them to thereby prove something to yourself.

Likewise, if you are never friends with XH, it shows nothing about whether you love or forgive. So, don't worry about trying to prove anything via an R with him.

You are doing great. You are finding some compassion. You are decent and civil to them, kind and loving with Ex-in-laws. You have shed your LoveHimThenYouHurtMe blanket. You are detaching. So don't find another back door to codependence by trying to prove something to you/them by "being friends."

If friendship is in the cards, then CHOOSE it for the sake of the friendship. Full stop. Don't choose it because of what you think such a choice says about you, for that is the back door toward codependence rather than away from it.

Your choices, your risk/benefit calculations, your consequences to own.

[mishka422]

OT - that has to be one of the best posts I have ever seen! You are so brilliant. You said everything I was thinking but in a much better way than I could have put it.

Donna, sweetie, you know how much I love and care for you. At least I hope you do! I want nothing more than for you to release all of this and live life strictly on your own terms and without wondering what effect it will have on those remotely associated with you.

Or do I continue to be withdrawn, "dark," protect myself from it all and avoid all necessary contact? Wish that he would just go away...

Unhealthy. You know it, I know it. This is a protection mechanism but you no longer need to be in protection mode. You have created a life of your own. There is truly no reason to be totally withdrawn from them, that smacks of being hostile. Is there any reason to feel that way anymore? I wouldn't think so. Like OT said though, it doesn't mean you have to have a R with them to prove anything. Do what you feel will work for you. Saying hello and exchanging pleasantries is being real. Trying to force yourself into a R with people you no longer have anything in common with is fake and only will further your own pain.

Please print and read OT's post over and over. I really think what she said will be hugely helpful! Heck, even give it to your C and have her read it. She might find creative ways to work those ideas into your future sessions.

((((((((((Donna)))))))))))))))))))

[Reincarnated]

Friends, thank you for the notes. I do appreciate the advice about the in-laws.

However, while that situation is challenging and I'm still unsure what I will end up doing for Christmas, it is really something else bothering me entirely.

I don't think, deep in my heart, that I have closed the door on my ex, even though he has most assuredly done so with me.

I just miss him. Past all the anger, and hurt and betrayal, I miss him. And I am angry with myself, impatient to get past all this.
I have great doubts that I ever will.

So....this brings me back to the relationships with his family, with him, going forward.

IF there were to ever be some...God, I don't even want to write it down here, it seems so pathetic given others' stories...I can imagine all of the shaking heads...

Maybe the question is, how late is too late? How much damage is too much damage?
Is staying distant and dark only making sure that any hope is completely squashed? Couple that with the questions of, am I strong enough to be open to a friendship with my ex, accepting that he is with someone else (thoughts of that bring me great pain)? Is this the only way that there would be some future possibility? I almost feel like I am back at square one...
trying to save something that hasn't been for a long time.


I think that maybe I am still crazy...