First time poster feeling a bit lost

[MT21]

Hello Sandii.

Thank you for your reply.

My view hasnt changed, I am intent in sorting myself out and doing a lot more for myself.
I have always been accused in all areas of my life as putting other people first, this includes my wife. And strangely up until now thought that I had always been there for her.

She is confused in as much as she knows it doesnt feel right, I am not saying that her emotions/gut feeling is incorrect but it its not straight either.

She desperately wants an other promotion in work, she sees it as her way to provide financial security for the children, but more importantly to give her the feeling of success and independence. She has something to prove to herself.

Its like the order of merit is "Do - Have - Be" we have lots of materialistic things and have lived like this for a while.

I plan to change myself and my life to "Be - Do - Have".

I have a new found energy that I dont plan to waste.

I agree she is vulnerable for an A but I truly believe that she has no capacity right now for any additional complications. She is not in an A right now.

In someways I actually feel sorry for her right now.

Dating, that is no no for me, My moral code wont allow me to do that and I am still committed to my wife and marriage.
I havent worn my wedding ring for a few years. My fingers were too big.. No other reason.

I may start wearing it again. If I can fit it. That may inflame the situation with her so I may be cautious for now.

I am still uncertain if I can invent some Pseudo jealousy, but I do support your opinion that it could be very effective.

After our talk yesterday, I have a lot more clarity.
I am looking forward to our dinner date this evening and I plan to have fun.

Speak soon

MT

[sandi2]

I may start wearing it again. If I can fit it. That may inflame the situation with her so I may be cautious for now.

IMHO, if you have not worn your ring in a long time.....you need to leave it off.

[MT21]

Hi Sandii,

Yes, I know. Thanks.

So Last night, dinner, I am the prize.

It did not go so well.

It was a cold rainy night, the restaurant although recommended turned about to be a disaster, They had booked two large Xmas partys and it was difficult to talk, the atmospehere was terrible.

I dressed up in my new clothes she complimented me saying I looked good. She also dressed up, including xtra large heels. She looked amazing.. She MUST get hit on all the time.

For the first time in my life I felt inferior, and that she was out of my league.

So we returned home early, I was very disappointed that we didnt get to talk and have fun, it showed. And then we got talking about R again. (she told me I am putting too much pressure on myself)

despite my earlier mail, and the unclear message the other day, I can definitely confirm she is WAW.

She told me that she still loves me but the way in which she loves me has changed. we discussed this a little, I am (to mirror your comments Sandii) more like a brother.

I asked her how she thought about dating, she told me that it wasn't high on her list and was more concerned about keeping herself together right now, but I think it is only a matter of time. But then she realized I was talking about me with someone else, It stopped her dead for a few seconds, she said she hasn't thought about it...(silence) "you have do what you is right for you"...I followed up by saying I am married.

I am serious about changing and doing more myself, but yet again, I feel a little lost. I so badly want to detach but dont know how?

I want her to see me moving on with my life, but dont know how to do it right now without being a little grumpy and angry around her.

It really annoys me that she thinks she calls all the shots, when to love, that she automatically gets the kids, gets to move into a new house in the future, gets her promotion and doesn't invest that benefit back into our home and R. (the very thing I thought we'd been working towards together)

After all I made some huge sacrifices to myself and have always supported my family to the best of my ability. (For nearly 10 years now I travel to work daily 1.5hours each direction) Whilst she is local, building her career, friends and social network.
This is also part of my problem I have NO friends close to escape with, my family has always taken priority.

She admits that she is selfish, but she needs to take control of HER life.

She read "the walk, (WAW)" last night, and googled some counseling services. She gave me some feedback this morning that she thought the article put the blame at the LBS's feet and was one sided, she said it isn't me again its her.
She doesnt hold out much hope for counseling.

So I am back to painting, keeping fit etc.. (I lost another couple of pounds, now just 188LBS (I am 6'2) so it wont be long and the abs will be restored.)

This is tough..

MT

[MT21]

SANDI is wise and gave you great advise. Read her post again.

This is very important

Listen carefully here....in the past her problems were your problems b/c you were her H and that's just how it is in a MR. However, at this point you allow her problems to be hers and not your....okay? That's very important, and you will come to understand why more and more as we go along.

Sandi,

Am I right in saying that this is part of her having her cake and eating it? Can you explain a little more?

Thanks

MT

[sandi2]

Sorry dinner did not go as you had hoped. I had to smile when you were describing how pretty your W looked. A WAW does so much damage to a LBH's self-esteem and I'm sure that is one reason you felt inferior, but don't you think she dressed that way for "you"?

Regarding the dating.....I know you don't feel that you should date while M, and I respect that....but I just want you to notice her reaction when she realized you were refering to yourself. She was stunned! You see, to a WAW everything is about "her" and she thought you would be too depressed at her leaving and she never dreamed that you might actually think about GAL like that!

But then she realized I was talking about me with someone else, It stopped her dead for a few seconds, she said she hasn't thought about it...(silence) "you have do what you is right for you"...I followed up by saying I am married.

If only you would not have "followed up" with an answer at all and just let her wonder. You see, she needs to get her attention off of herself long enough to realize that you really are the prize that she wants and doesn't want to throw you out there for some other lucky woman to have. Don't you see that? You can bet that if she has any feeligs at all, that will trigger it. It is human nature!

I know that most people think of dating as the same thing as having sex.....but I don't. I think you could go to dinner or a show or something casual. Do you have a female friend who is single and would know that it was a "friends only" type of evening?

She really needs to know that you are out there enjoying yourself. You won't have to explain that to her b/c somebody will be telling her that they saw you and how great you seem to be. Now, the first thing most LBH's think is that their WAW will think that the H doesn't want to work on the M and that it will push her away more. But it works the opposite way......unless she truly has absolutely no feelings left for you....and if that was the case, then nothing would help or hurt any more.

She told me that she still loves me but the way in which she loves me has changed. we discussed this a little, I am (to mirror your comments Sandii) more like a brother.

Even more reason that you must not behave like her brother. She needs to be sexually attracted to you. I learned early in my teen years that the worst thing a man wants to hear a woman say is that she thinks of him like a brother. That means she has no sexual attraction at all toward him. So.....you need to light her fire. However, with a WAW you cannot do it the same way you would if you were still together and just need to give the M some sizzle. She first needs to realize that she does indeed still desire you. But, if you stay at home and play the faithful, dutiful, pitiful, left behind H......do you think she is going to be attracted to that? As a former almost WAW who said the same thing about my H, I can tell you that she will not find that threatening one bit. By threatening, I mean that she needs to feel "threatened" of losing YOU!!

You have been so focused on losing her and she has been so focused on leaving you that neither of you have looked at this stich in a different light. You need to become the WAS. You need to have the attitude that you have decided that you would like to be single again. The more you think about being "free", the more appealing it sounds. Don't you see that that attitude showing in you will be a lot more productive than your "disappointed" attitude that showed after the dinner the other night.

Maybe none of this makes sense to you....but it doesn't have to make sense, you just need to trust that it works and do it. Look at my signature line.

I so badly want to detach but dont know how?

Detaching first comes by physically detaching from her and stop any contact. If she contacts you, then you are polite and talk to her as if she is your cousin. That keeps you from showing your emotions. Hopefully if will keep you from getting into a R talk.

Staying busy and planing ahead will help you detach. GAL does wonders for detaching. But mostly, detaching is about "attitude", and when you truly detach, she'll know it....we will know it....and you will know it.

I want her to see me moving on with my life, but dont know how to do it right now without being a little grumpy and angry around her.

I don't know if I am understand what you mean here, but I'll take a stab at it. Are you saying that you think she needs to see you being grumpy at her for what she's done......or are you saying that you can't move on without feeling angry?

It may take some time for the anger to subside, but men here on the board have been shocked when they would start getting out and getting a social life and saw just how quickly they responded to that. They didn't really have a desire to socialize either....but they forced themselves, and then "wow" they saw what we were talking about. But being grumpy & angry "around her" is not the way to go, my friend. That is such a hugh turn-off and if you want her to throw D papers in your face, you keep that up and you find out. How many people do you want to be with who act that way? None, I would guess. You want to get a flicker and spark going in her.....not pour ice water on her.

It really annoys me that she thinks she calls all the shots, when to love, that she automatically gets the kids, gets to move into a new house in the future, gets her promotion and doesn't invest that benefit back into our home and R. (the very thing I thought we'd been working towards together)

Not all, but most WAW's feel the same way as she does.....and all LBH's feel like you. But the more you sit around and dwell on it, the more you are being unattractive to everyone. That is an area that you have to work on yourself. Attitude is what make people attractive....not so much their physical looks (even though that doesn't hurt). That old expression my grandmother use to tell me, "Pretty is as Pretty does" is soooooo true....only in your case it would be handsome.

She admits that she is selfish, but she needs to take control of HER life.

Script!

This is also part of my problem I have NO friends close to escape with, my family has always taken priority.

Okay, but now you have to make new friends. No excuses. People can't go through life with nobody but their spouse & kids. Surely you remember how to meet people and try to strike up a new friendship. Go to places where you will meet people. Get involved in some organization where you'll be with others. You can think of something.

She read "the walk, (WAW)" last night

Are you talking about the article that Michele wrote here on the DB home page? She doesn't need to know about this board. She doesn't need to know that you are getting your tools for DB. DB is your game plan and if she knows what that is, don't you think it would be a bit defeating?

[sandi2]

[[quote]quote]Originally Posted By: Quote:
Listen carefully here....in the past her problems were your problems b/c you were her H and that's just how it is in a MR. However, at this point you allow her problems to be hers and not your....okay? That's very important, and you will come to understand why more and more as we go along.

Sandi,

Am I right in saying that this is part of her having her cake and eating it? Can you explain a little more?

Thanks

What I was trying to say in that quote was how you must change your way of thinking as her H......who would take care of her problems......to the man who is separated from her problems and takes care of only himeself. Stop thinking of yourself as her "husband".

Anything you to that enables her to continue down the path she is presently on......allows her to cake eat. So, if you help her with any of her problems, it allows her to cake eat. It is hard not to do as you did in the past and go to her aide, but remind yourself that it will enable her to do what you don't want.

A WAW has to have life hard b/c if they have everything handed to them on a silver platter, why would they ever look back? A LBH must stand up to his WAW and tell her "no" to the things that he knows is wrong. When she is being selfish, see it as that and don't buy into her trying to "get control of her life". Sure, she's trying to get control.....and walk right out of your life forever. Are you going to help her?

*******************************

I meant to add something in the last post about the detaching and attitude. You mentioned how you didn't know if you could do that without being grumpy or angry around her. The DR book teaches how the LBS needs to act positive and upbeat when around the WAS. Some people don't understand how to do that or what it really means. I have used this example of the commercial on TV that shows the man arriving at the office and he's going through the big office area of people working. He is very friendly....speaking or waving his hand as he passes by. But the key is that he doesn't stop! He just smiles....waves....and keeps on moving. This man shows confidence and strength! He is a man on the move. People like him. They respond in a positive way to him. You know by watching him that he would be a person you would like to be around. He shines with personality. Now let's say one of those office women were to stop this man and talk to him.....maybe even try to flirt a little bit. He is a busy man. He is a professional man. So he will not flirt back with her, but he will keep it strickly business. He will be polite and handle it in a friendly, business manner ....and then move on with his day.

This is exactly how you need to deal with your WAW. You just smile and wave and keep on moving forward. If she contacts you, then you talk to her in a polite, friendly business manner and keep it short (break off the communication first) and then move on....b/c you are a busy man.

Are you afraid of that technique? Don't be...b/c it will get her attention and she will draw closer to you. Practice being the man I just described and see what happens.

[MT21]

Sandii,

Wow! I am going to read it a few more times before I respond in full. But thankyou for the taking the time to reply in the meantime

MT

[MT21]

A WAW does so much damage to a LBH's self-esteem and I'm sure that is one reason you felt inferior, but don't you think she dressed that way for "you"?

I am not sure I understand here?

Do you mean
1. She dressed that way to rub my nose in it one more time before she walks?
2. She still has some feelings and she wants me to fight?

Thats confusing, right now I just see a walking away girl...I am just kinda expecting something else devastating right now.

You see, to a WAW everything is about "her" and she thought you would be too depressed at her leaving and she never dreamed that you might actually think about GAL like that!

Everything is about her..her space..her looks..her career..

She told me that she has to get the next promotion for the sake of kids, their future and hers... Its like nothing else matters... Stupid *@#!

If only you would not have "followed up" with an answer at all and just let her wonder. You see, she needs to get her attention off of herself long enough to realize that you really are the prize that she wants and doesn't want to throw you out there for some other lucky woman to have.

I also wished I hadnt followed up, I let her off the hook again! But I am not so sure about this one, I understand the logic but she is really really determined!

I'll paint the picture..A fews ago when she was stay at home mum, happy in the house, and content she started to eat... She got real big, I loved her regardless it did not interfere with any part of lives as couple.

But then after seeing the doctor she made the decision to change..She exercised changed the diet, and lost 65LB in around 6mnths...people did not even recognize in the street. I remember going to a reunion, people thought I had remarried.

Well that same frame of mind is back, its like shes losing excess baggage again. and I'm it. (unfortunately I had the lack of respect to mention this to her..eek)

I know that most people think of dating as the same thing as having sex.....but I don't. I think you could go to dinner or a show or something casual. Do you have a female friend who is single and would know that it was a "friends only" type of evening?

Not really, but I wouldnt know how to tell her anyway with out her thinking it was sexual, she already thinks I have a high sex drive and its all I think about...strangely I havent thought about it all since the bomb.

She really needs to know that you are out there enjoying yourself. You won't have to explain that to her b/c somebody will be telling her that they saw you and how great you seem to be. Now, the first thing most LBH's think is that their WAW will think that the H doesn't want to work on the M and that it will push her away more. But it works the opposite way......unless she truly has absolutely no feelings left for you....and if that was the case, then nothing would help or hurt any more

This is going to take me time..not to go but to really start enjoying myself to the point that she notices my attitude has really changed. But I will start this process.

In fact yesterday, early evening I had some fun.

I packed my bag for the gym and was getting ready to leave..wearing normal clothing. I then texted (sms) myself so she could hear..I then texted again so it looked like a reply..I then changed into brand new clothes...fitted shirt..nice aftershave etc... left my gym bag and went out(No explanations). She asked what time I would be bcak b/c she was making dinner for 7:30, I said I would try to be back. (Of course I made it, didnt want her dinner to waste or make her mad)(all my shirts were ironed for the period she is away this week...why is she still ironing my shirts??? I do them normally!)

On my return a few hours later...she said "didn't go to the gym then" No I replied "changed my mind" and then carried on in the friendliest manner I could.. She asked no more questions.. (I just went for a really long drive to clear my head)

Even more reason that you must not behave like her brother. She needs to be sexually attracted to you. I learned early in my teen years that the worst thing a man wants to hear a woman say is that she thinks of him like a brother. That means she has no sexual attraction at all toward him. So.....you need to light her fire. However, with a WAW you cannot do it the same way you would if you were still together and just need to give the M some sizzle. She first needs to realize that she does indeed still desire you. But, if you stay at home and play the faithful, dutiful, pitiful, left behind H......do you think she is going to be attracted to that? As a former almost WAW who said the same thing about my H, I can tell you that she will not find that threatening one bit. By threatening, I mean that she needs to feel "threatened" of losing YOU!!

This is a v.interesting point... I have a concern.

If I suddenly start going out more..what stops her doing the same..please bear in mind we live in the same house and someone must take care of the children.. She will expect me to ask or at least inform her.

I dont want this to be another area of conflict..time away from the kids..money etc...

What would you suggest?

Maybe none of this makes sense to you....but it doesn't have to make sense, you just need to trust that it works and do it. Look at my signature line.

I will, as difficult as it is.

I so badly want to detach but dont know how?

Detaching first comes by physically detaching from her and stop any contact. If she contacts you, then you are polite and talk to her as if she is your cousin. That keeps you from showing your emotions. Hopefully if will keep you from getting into a R talk.

Staying busy and planing ahead will help you detach. GAL does wonders for detaching. But mostly, detaching is about "attitude", and when you truly detach, she'll know it....we will know it....and you will know it.

But we live in the same house, she wont move and neither will I...how to avoid one another is a mystery to me..But I will try to stay out of her way.

I want her to see me moving on with my life, but dont know how to do it right now without being a little grumpy and angry around her.

I don't know if I am understand what you mean here, but I'll take a stab at it. Are you saying that you think she needs to see you being grumpy at her for what she's done......or are you saying that you can't move on without feeling angry?

Not really let me rephrase...I mean.. "right thats it!" I am moving on...then I just cant seem to help myself being quite grumpy around her and firing ultimatums at her.. I even offered to call the solicitor for her the other day...she ignored me but how crazy is that?

She may even do it herself this week. Its almost like I cant behave or control my emotions around her.. Its not healthy.

And your right if i dont get it under control she will walk.

but I feel like a wounded puppy dog, I can brave face for a day.. a few hours but then Bam! back to square one. Yesterday I felt as bad if not worse than the day she dropped the bomb.

Okay, but now you have to make new friends. No excuses. People can't go through life with nobody but their spouse & kids. Surely you remember how to meet people and try to strike up a new friendship. Go to places where you will meet people. Get involved in some organization where you'll be with others. You can think of something.

I have something it meets every Tuesday..she is back at 9pm tomorrow...should I walk out as she comes in or do you think it's too hostile? after all I don't want to pour water on her.

She read "the walk, (WAW)" last night

Are you talking about the article that Michele wrote here on the DB home page? She doesn't need to know about this board. She doesn't need to know that you are getting your tools for DB. DB is your game plan and if she knows what that is, don't you think it would be a bit defeating?

Yes I agree she cannot see this board...but I just thought it would give another perspective?

Sandii, thank you so much for your perspective it has really helped me this evening..I felt awful at times today but this will help me to focus..


MT

[chatterbug]

Gentlemen. Take notice sandi2 is on her game. Read what she has written. If you do not understand. Take time to re-read and ask questions.

Sandi wow another great powerful post.

[sandi2]

She is confused in as much as she knows it doesnt feel right, I am not saying that her emotions/gut feeling is incorrect but it its not straight either.

That's good. As strange as it may sound, one of the DB techniques is to keep her confused at her thinking of walking away. That is why you must continue to work on your own issues and show 180's to her.

but more importantly to give her the feeling of success and independence. She has something to prove to herself.

I don't have time this morning to really get into this part....but it is common amoung women these days, when it use to be seen only in the men (and when the women were SAHM). She is looking at her job as what identifies her importance/self worth. Just as men have done for generations.....now women are doing the same.

I will finish this post later. There are several thngs I want to respond to. Didn't want you to think I was ignoring you. I do think you are going good, so keep the good work up.