I’m going to step out here and just say what is on my mind after reading this discussion.You seem to have this idea that you are somehow unique, that you are possessed with keener senses to detect a greater truth be it in American culture or some intellectual argument.
No, not keener sense, just different. I don't think Europeans have a keener sense at all. In fact, I prefer the American perspective on other areas of life.
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Just so you know you are not unique. You are an adulterer. And a smug one at that.
Well, I do meet the definition of adulterer, I know that. I'm getting the impression that you're using that word here because you think it would convey a sense of guilt. It doesn't for me. It would take an American attitude to feel that guilt to the extent that perhaps you think I should. I know couples who are OK with it.
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And I know of what I speak for I can see a lot of myself, or at least how I used to be, in you. My marriage was sex-starved for a long time and I too decided that I was owed sex and if my wife wasn’t willing then I would just go find it. It was the most careless and selfish thing I’ve done to date. I hurt my wife terribly.
I totally understand that, and I would not recommend it generally.
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You see, it matters nothing if your wife is frigid or bangs you like a drum. What matters is what you do. You have chosen to seek sex outside of your marriage because you are too much a coward to address the issue head on.
I feel I have very much addressed it head on, even to the extent that I drove my wife to hysteria with my constant pressuring and trying to talk about it, and going to therapy, etc. If that is not head on, I don't know what is. You seem to be making the same assumption a lot of casual commentators make, namely, the fact that I have not succeeded in getting my wife to be wonderfully sexual NECESSARILY MEANS that I have NOT addressed the issue head on. Would you not agree that for some couples, the marriage continues sexlessly even when the issue has been addressed head on?
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A man/woman with integrity would say to their spouse “I refuse to live in a sexless marriage, what are we going to do about that.”
I have done exactly that. But then you predicted that I would pontificate and say just that. So you're already ahead of me.
Just what would you do if you've already tried addressing the issue head on, and done all the standard things, short of divorce itself (which solve the problem by definition), and the marriage continues sexless?
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Using other women that you don’t really care about for sex shows a certain lack of empathy, and for a married man to do so shows a lack of ethics. No amount of verbal masturbation on your part will change that.
You don't know the circumstances at all.
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Finally, what do you think your kids will think when they find out about your behavior. And they will find out if you keep at this. If you are honestly fine with your behavior sit the family down and let them know what you’re up to. Give your parent, and her parents too a ring and fill them in as well.
What parents do in the bedroom isnt' really the kids business. What they care most about is how we related to them, and that is working well.
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Look, you are a big boy and can do what you what with your life. In fact, I don’t really care how many women besides you wife you bed. Perhaps you can make it into the hundreds if you try really hard. But go at it with honesty.
I have. I've told me wife everything she wants to know.
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And this will crush your wife when she finds out.
She already knows, but doesn't want to know the details. But she would prefer that I keep it to just strip clubs and playboy calendars. But that isn't the problem in our marriage. The marriage is pretty much the same as it was when I was totally celibate and miserable, with the improvement that I'm no longer endlessly pestering her for sex. And she seems happier too. I know you will pontificate and say that's a sham, and that I'm smugly European, and such. OK, I get it.
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I didn't think my wife would really care about my adultery either, she didn't want sex so why would she care that I was having it with someone else? I was very wrong. It deeply wounded her. And to see that hurt in her eyes and knowing I was the cause was a truly that nadir of my life.
Yes, I will admit I have certainly thought that. But my wife's reaction to it has not been the same. In fact, I would have preferred if it really mattered to her, as that would in some way show that she cared more to fill that role with me. I don't suppose your wife would buy you Playboy calendars or remind you of a discount night at the local strip club, just to get your attention away from her so she wouldn't feel sexually pressured, while trying to still show that she thinks about your sexual needs? Well, if not, then my wife is different from yours, and it's not just my smug attitude, no?
I would love to hear my wife say, or even demand with a stern voice, "I don't want you to see other women, or even think about them." because it would very much imply that she wanted my focus to be on her. And it would allow me to reply, "OK, does that mean you're willing to work on us -- let me know what I can do!" As it is, she would rather that I spend time looking at Playboy centerfolds. Perhaps I'm letting her off too easy by going along with that. The situation is static, and she's got her life full of other rewarding things, and she's not dealing with any issues regarding our relationship, since she thinks that I'm pretty happy with the way I'm coping.
It's been my first assumption, that my sexless marriage was a typical one, that led to a lot of approaches which have NOT WORKED. So that has perhaps led me to the "smug" view that mine is different, if for no other reason than that trying the same approach again doesn't seem fruitful.
