I think the R talk went ok provided H truly means what he says and there is no OW. Overall, we both said we want to work on our M and do not want to S or D.
When I have more time, I will elaborate with more details.
Thanks for stressing the importance of listening and validating during the talk - I probably would not have done it as much and would have been too self focused during our discussion.
Glad to hear the talk went well. Looking forward to the details.
Just a word of caution: remember to trust your gut instinct. Don't just dismiss the possibility of OW because he says there isn't one. If deep down inside you feel that it's true, then it's true. Almost everyone here would have sworn up, down, and sideways that their partner would never cheat before discovering the OW/OM. But after the discovery, most will admit that they had an inkling this was true but dismissed the thought as ridiculous.
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
pearl - I did not ask about OW last night. It just did not seem the right time and wanted to see what he had to say without putting him on the defensive.
I tried to listen and validate... I really noticed how he trys to read my mind and guess what I am thinking or how I will answer.
So I started with - I understand the stress you feel supporting our family finacially as I no longer work out of the home. I agree with you, I never realized how much hard work was involved with raising a family and maintaining a M. He says I contribute in other ways to the family dynamic and it was nice to hear how he appreciates the things I do.
So he had been waiting for me to show some outpouring of emotion since our last R talk in Oct ie. Throwing my arms around him proclaiming my love and my desire to stay married.
He stated he wanted to have this talk as he was going crazy living in limbo and could not believe I resorted to email as our main form of communication. Before I even said I wanted to work on M, he said if we ended up in D, he would still want to be friends and we would have to have verbal communication.
I asked him what did he do all these years when he was trying so hard to make out M better... and said I do not think we are on the same page when it comes to identifying and addressing each others needs. He was using affection and conversation. And I longed for quality time together.
He complained how I did not welcome him back in bed warmly when he slept upstairs so he would leave again. I never woke him up and told him to come to bed. I responded why would I, when you have told me that the reason you don't sleep in our bed is that you are no longer attracted to me.
He was ecstatic to hear me say "I want you back in our bed" and this is when I started to get teary eyed and emotional . At bed time we cuddled in bed, smooched and if I had shown more interest, I think ML would not have been out of the question. I am not ready for that yet as I still have doubts about OW.
So it ended up with me reiterating I guess we are basically on the same page.... we dont want to S or D.
So overall I was feeling good last night but today I am not as positive as this nagging doubt re: OW still lingers.
I want to bring OW up but not sure if it is a good idea. I want to say something like this:
We talked about a lot of things last night and I feel very positive that we both want to work on our M and make it better. However, there is one important point I did not bring up [ask him when would be a good time to discuss this with him]
Some observations over the last couple of months have been brought to my attention with respect to fidelity. I am not willing to go into the details that have led to my conclusions but is there or has there been OW who has met/meeting your emotional and/or physical needs where I was lacking. Do you have a female friend that you talk to that I have not met.
Have not had much time to sit down at the computer today. I am sure I will remember some more points to share when I have time to sit back and reflect.
Do not misunderstand Maple, asking him about OW will produce only one of two responses: no or she's just a friend. Remember that ALL CHEATERS LIE.
IMO, you cannot work on your R with another person involved. It just won't get you anywhere because H will be telling you what you want to hear and telling her what she wants to hear to continue the cake eating as long as possible. You cannot rebuild a M on a foundation of lies.
My BF lied to my face on a daily basis, even when I had proof showing when and where he was meeting OW.
This is why I tell you to trust your gut. If you think there is OW either get some proof or move forward assuming there is one. This would entail setting a boundary with H that you will not be in an open marriage and if he is serious about recommitting to you then he will have no problem with implementing a transparency plan.
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
On night of last R talk, we ate dinner as a family, he helped with dishes, played with kids, helped kids clean up toys, cuddled at night in bed. It seemed all good. But since that night, nothing has really changed. I see no effort on his part except sleeping in martial bed.
After last R talk, I thought maybe I would give him the benefit of the doubt and move forward with the assumption there is no OW. (Maybe I am naive, but I am trying to be optimistic. I have not eliminated the possibility of OW and will still look for intel gathering opportunities– like cell phone, etc. I saw him enter his ipod touch pswd last night so I will be able to check that now.)
Daily I have been working on the following: trying to delay dinner so we eat as a family asking him about his day seeking him out to say goodnight with a kiss.
Also, I offered to make him hot choc after he hung the xmas lights, have watched tv in the family room while he played on computer (so we could be in the same room), woke him up after he has fallen asleep on couch to tell him to go to bed. Things that he said he missed me doing.
So here I start my complaining..... He never asks about my day (sometimes asks DD how was school/day but not always) – does he not have any interest on what I do during the day? Does not call to give approx time he will be home for dinner Last night H laid down in bed ( I was reading in bed), set his alarm and closed his eyes to go to sleep – not even a good night or kiss.
Was H's need to have R talk to gain some control as he was sensing my distance? For 2 days before, I had stopped talking to him unless it was related to kids, sent email to communicate with him, didn't acknowledge his presence in the house.
I have to say yesterday was a very crappy day. H was cranky, kids were irritable, and I was on verge of tears a few times. And I am starting to realize he was not sincere on his desire to work on our M. And that just brings me back to the possibility of OW. And then how can we work on M, if OW is in picture. So then I need to get a plan together to gather intel, so I have proof of OW for the I will not tolerate open marriage boundary talk... And my head spins around again.
This is why I tell you to trust your gut. If you think there is OW either get some proof or move forward assuming there is one. This would entail setting a boundary with H that you will not be in an open marriage and if he is serious about recommitting to you then he will have no problem with implementing a transparency plan.
Ok... so tonight was the night the elusive cell phone was left in the bedroom while H was in the shower. I took a look. Did not have much time as he was almost done shower.
Phone call tonight at 7:23pm for just over 2 min to suspected ph#. (I was upstairs putting DDs to bed while he was downstairs on the computer at this time.) From suspected ph#: (10 incoming texts - not sure if all were from OW) A couple of “good morning” texts usually around 8:20 am. One happy face I am missing you or miss you text Another one something like - r u hungry /did you eat – want me to pick up dinner (should have noted the time/date) as it might of corresponded with his poker night. Only outgoing text to suspected ph# was “ok”.
My hands were shaking so bad and my heart was beating so loud, I wish I could remember it better or gone through it more thoroughly.
Gee I wonder why he did not try to kiss me good night tonight.
So now I know for sure it was just more than a casual aquaintance he might have had communication with. I sure as hell don't text my friends good morning and give happy face miss you texts.
Still don't know if it is EA or PA, but as it stands I feel betrayed, disappointed, sad.
I need help setting up the boundary/speech. And when should I do this? We have a “date night” planned for Saturday.
I need to calm down and relax so I can get some sleep tonight.
Firstly, as difficult as it is, keep your cool. Do NOT confront him yet. Check out Britt's thread and the advice she was given from this point forward. Even though she hasn't acted on much of it, it is GOOD advice.
Thanks Gno, I actually have been following Britt's thread off and on. I will have to read the advice.
So after I posted last night, and was debating to check his phone more thoroughly, his phone rang 2x (approx 11:30pm). Must have been a sign for me to stop my snooping.
And then his phone vibrated 2 more times around midnight. By then, I had come back to bed. And woke him up to turn off his phone.
H: Huh? Me: Turn off your phone. Its vibrating? Like 2- 3 times. Why do you have your phone in bed anyway? H: [grumbles] It was ringing and I put in on silent mode. [checks phone - I can't see anything as I don't have glasses on]. Who would leave me 2 voice msgs? Me: guess you can find out later. Maybe it was one of your GF's (trying to joke).
Just could not bite my tongue. Now I think about it, I have heard his phone ring late at night before.
Today's Priority #1 - keep my cool! I will try.
My stomach has been in knots all night and have hardly slept.
H: Huh? Me: Turn off your phone. Its vibrating? Like 2- 3 times. Why do you have your phone in bed anyway? H: [grumbles] It was ringing and I put in on silent mode. [checks phone - I can't see anything as I don't have glasses on]. Who would leave me 2 voice msgs? Me: guess you can find out later. Maybe it was one of your GF's (trying to joke).
Why would you joke about such a horrible thing??
Better: "Well, I'm sure it wouldn't be a girlfriend. Even you wouldn't do something so horribly disrespectful as to receive a text message from another woman while you were in bed with your wife. G'nite! "
Maple, I'm sorry you had to see that stuff. At least now you know what you're dealing with, and can make better decisions accordingly.
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