Puppy, does the above response clarify my assertion of a boundry and the consequences. I thought this was pretty powerful on my part. It signals a strong stance something she has not seen much from me. Essentially I said, 'This is what I insist upon and if you are unwilling to accept these terms, then you will not get what you want.' It also put her between her cake and whether she can eat it too. The boundry was asserted in such a way to say that she cannot have both. Of course, she remains committed to having it and eating it and is exploring other ways to achieve that goal. But for me, I established firmly that I will not participate in the manner prescribed by her. The consequence is that she does not obtain the result that she wants. This is an important change. Heretofor, I have generally taken the tact that if I give her everything she wants, she is bound to respect me. She can't deny that the position I took last night is a substantial departure from my customary practice.
Hard for me to say, because I STILL don't understand how you phrased the financial boundary! Will you please stop being so cryptic, and just tell us what your stance was on your financial support of her business???
And if we're correct in assuming that you left such a major conversation with laying out ANY affair boundaries, then no, I don't see where you did anything "powerful" on your part, and in fact I think your wife probably walked away from the encounter thinking some combination of:
- he still seems to be okay with my affair; he'll huff and he'll puff, but he won't do anything about it;
- he's SUCH an a**hole on the financial stuff! What a controlling jerk!
- he's weak and afraid to confront the real issues here.
I said, "I cannot sign off on that because you are asking me to accept 100% of the risk without recieving any percent of ownership. I will not be involved unless you accept me as a equal partner in this venture." This was very disruptive to her system and showed more backbone that she has seen in me in some time.
Ok, so I have not asserted a consequence of the A. To me, it is not all or nothing. I remain dedicated to my M and family and remain willing to pick up the pieces and work on our relationship when and if the time comes. Therefore, I cannot say with any integrity, "End it or I am out of here or you are out of here." Can anyone suggest other consequences that I can say with credibility?
Not to us either, you are the only one who sees things as "all or nothing." You have pessimistic thinking, I know it from how you say things. I'll ask again for you to research and read, "Learned Optimism" by Martin Seligman. I promise it will help you.
You need to do some homework to get yourself up to speed.
Quote:
Can anyone suggest other consequences that I can say with credibility?
What Puppy said.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Ok, so I have not asserted a consequence of the A. To me, it is not all or nothing.
I feel sorry for you, that you are willing to let your wife walk all over you in the hopes that she will start respecting you again. (See if you can spot the flaw in that plan.)
Originally Posted By: Wonderful!
I remain dedicated to my M and family and remain willing to pick up the pieces and work on our relationship when and if the time comes.
And by making that abundantly clear to her and refusing to enforce any boundaries, what you're really telling her that has no reason to care about your feelings. She can "cake-eat" to her heart's content until she works up the nerve to leave you for the OM -- maybe after building up a little nest egg? Or buying some sexy new clothes on the joint credit card? -- or until that relationship goes bust and she comes crawling back to you, the "safe" choice. (Safe, that is, until she finds a new bad boy that turns her crank. After all, you're not going anywhere...)
Originally Posted By: Wonderful!
Therefore, I cannot say with any integrity, "End it or I am out of here or you are out of here." Can anyone suggest other consequences that I can say with credibility?
If you're ruling out ending the marriage, what other options are there that she will respect?
Are going to make her sit in the corner? Take away her allowance? Send her to her room?
You're limiting yourself, and you're hampering your own efforts to do what you say you want to do.
Me: 44, Wife: 39 M: 17 years T: 20 years Bomb on 08/25/09 1/13/10: MC started 1/28/10, 2/8/10: More bombs 8/28/10: Wife moved out No talk of D, no movement
Women cannot and do not love men they don't respect.
Here's an example from a different perspective: My BF was having an EA/PA. I told him I would not be in an open relationship. After a few weeks of him continuing the affair I kicked him out of the house and ended the R. A short while later he decided he wanted me back. He left me a pathetic voicemail about getting together. Nothing about that was attractive, especially when I could compare it to a message I had from another man I was spending time with. My male friend's message was confident, strong and not the least bit needy.
So if your W has you simpering at home, knowing full well that whatever she does you're just going to sit there and take it, and OM who is confident, fun and exciting, why would she ever change her current situation?
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
Here's the flaw in the "All I can do is hope they do the right thing" approach, as I see it:
1. You are dealing with someone who is in an active affair. Physiologically, this does things to their brain -- that's a medical fact. It even shows up on CAT scans, and it's what made an intelligent and otherwise sane female astronaut drive from Texas to Florida WEARING AN ADULT DIAPER so she wouldn't have to take bathroom stops, so she could get there faster to avenge her man.
2. People who are chemically addicted to their affair do NOT have their marriage's best interests at heart.
3. If you don't insist that they end the affair first, or at least lay out a personal boundary of "I will not live in an open marriage," backed up with consequences, then you are asking someone who is chemically addicted, who does not have your marriage's best interest's at heart, TO DO THE RIGHT THING.
Simply ain't gonna happen.
It MIGHT happen if the OM/OW dumps them, in which case they may use the dumping as an excuse to come crawling back, but you're still going to be one contrite phone call from OM/OW away from losing them again.
When you take the "Little Bo-Peep" Approach (you know, "leave them alone, and they'll come home, wagging their tails behind them), you are expecting an alcoholic to "do the right thing" and voluntarily pour their liquor out. You're asking a pyromaniac to "come to their senses" and get rid of their matches. Ain't gonna happen.
DISCLAIMER:
I state the above with the obvious exception of a full religious epiphany, and while I believe that God is still in the Miracle business, I also believe He gave us the tools (His Word, His Holy Spirit, friends/family, etc.) to work for things on our own, while asking His help.
Sometimes the LBS seems to be in a bigger fog than the WAS. I find it interesting why they keep coming back for advice they blatently refuse to accept.
Dburt, I think you are correct about the fog. As the day goes on I find myself more and more depressed. I know I have to pull myself up soon though. I have to put up the front in the presence of my wife. Somedays it is easy, somedays it is hard. This has been a hard day. Maybe tommorrow will be better. I know I failed myself last night, even by my own standards. At a minimum, if I were to be true to myself, I should have not gotten undetached. It just confirmed our old pattern of relating. I should have had more control over myself and the converation/argument and my role in it. I remember reading that we often feel the worst before we reach a new platuea. I hope that is the case. I know there are those who have had it worse and recovered. I miss the presence of a woman in my life. I miss being smiled at lovingly and knowingly. I miss being spoken to in a soft tone while looking into loving eyes. I miss my wife. I guess I am just feeling sorry for myself right now. I will heal. I hope my marriage can too.
Believe me I know it is hard, but after the last of 3 heated exchanges with my waw, something snapped, I felt something lift off of me, I knew that she was gone.
I then came here and followed the advice of these great people, and guess what it all worked! As long as you are the same scared little boy it will never get better. Don't fight it, accept it, and move on to a different you. Again it worked for me.
