Mr. Wonderful...I am a woman and I know you are interetsed in hearing from us. I'll be honest, I don't feel all that comfortable offering advice, but this time I do have some thoughts to share.
First, it's true - a woman needs to respect the man she loves. A man that is clingy, insecure and doesn't stand up for himself is not a very attractive man. On the other hand, a man who is confident, poised and assertive is a man that grabs our attention and the one that we are much more likely to admire and be attracted to.
In my situation, I have experienced the very same emotions that you have. I have been in the same modes you call "pursuit and please mode" and "resentful/angry mode." Are you ready for the sad/pathetic news? I have been in the same miserable place for 13 months - actually we're going on 14 months (since we've been separated, meaning he's been out of our house).
My H made the choice to move out. When he moved out I knew nothing of OP. I was told he wasn't happy, I didn't have what it took to make him happy, he's been unhappy for a long time and ILYBINILWY - then poof he was gone.
I'm really afraid if you don't take the advice you are getting here and enforce the boundaries - you are going to find yourself waiting and waiting and waiting like I have. And let me tell you it SUCKS! You don't want to be in my position.
Your wife is doing what my H is doing - cake eating! It's sick. And the fact that she is actually asking you for money to grow her business is ridiculous, at least in IMHO. What if she plans to grow that business, get rid of you and then share the success with OM? Don't allow that to happen. If you were in a healthy, respectful marriage of course you should help, but not right now.
Please listen to the advice you are getting here - you are being way too naive and passive. Others can see your sitch from a much clearer perspective bc they have no emotional attachment.
It is great that you can stay calm and collected, but you have to be calm, collected AND assertive. She is not going to take you serious if you are timid, fearful or hesistant and she is not going to respect you.
I'm all for working on yourself and becoming happy on your own. In fact, I just got to that place in my own situation.
But, that doesn't mean you should sit back and just hope your wife makes the right choice. Don't wait for her to find some morals and values - cause in my experience - it ain't gonna happen. Um...I'm still waiting for my H to make the right choice. Remember how long I've been waiting?
She needs to see a major change in your attitude. You need to assertively set some ground rules and boundaries and she needs to feel the consequeneces if she breaks them.
Make a choice - I know you love her and don't want to lose her. You said you wouldn't leave, but how about the option of her getting the heck out of the house if she's not going to respect you or your vows?
The problem is that she knows you are going to put up with it - you said you won't leave and she knows that - so why would she change? Why would she stop seeing him? In her eyes, she has the best of both worlds.
Please don't be so passive that you allow things to go on for as long as I have. Learn from my dumb mistakes. If you live in fear of losing her, chances are you will never win back her love and respect.
Just my opinion...
Me: 34 H: 34 DD: 3 M: 8 yrs H moved out Oct. 2008, "not happy" "don't know what I want" "will always love you, but not in love with you" PA Bomb: April 5, 2010
Well, I set some boundries last night. We had the money talk. She actually wants me to assume responsibility for 100% of the debt and none of the benefit! She got very angry and disrespectful immediately after I stated my position. The consquence of not honoring the boundry were constructed to use her weight against her. I made it clear that failing to honor the boundry would result in her not being in a position to achieve her goals. In a direct sense, the consequences cut to the core of the cake eating. In other words, it is her desire to have her cakee and eat it to that prevent her from having what she wants. It led to threats to leave sooner, etc.(this is somewhat of an empty threat since she is already checked out). I certainly was assertive and confident. I got things like you are not my friend, when did you become such a jerk, can you recommend a lawyer to me, etc. (She is going to talk to a lawyer about negotiating with me on this issue and find out if she can accomplish her goals without my help.) Needless to say many Angry, hateful words were cast upon me. She even berated me and threatened to leave because I have been distant the last couple of weeks. She asked for space! I gave it to her, now she wants to hold that against me too! Unreal! I tried to remain detached but it did get the better of me I must confess. However, I always came back to my center and held firm to my boundries. This infuriated her.
I wonder if this is a MLC? Frankly, I don't see much hope at this point.
Ok. It looks like I need to rant a bit. I have done everything for this marriage. I have taken on more than my share in the name of love and support. I have given to the point that it has been detrimental to me. My wife has never known the kind of love and support that she has been given. Yet, she is determined to destroy our M. My wife has had only one foot in the door in our marriage from day one. She has constantly been looking for that "AhAh" moment. What a sick way to live. But of course, as you seek so shall you find. She would say "There is no romance, no passion, no friendship in our marriage". My response, "$hit, there is no you in our M." Now, for the record, I give frequent gifts for no reason, cards, flowers, and arrange countless suprise romantic weekend getaways for us.
This morning it was "You didn't tell me the workmen were coming today" and "You didn't take the garbage out". Jeez, I had a few things on my mind and I forgot these vital details.(See previous post). I didn't react to either of these statements just said sorry, it must have slipped my mind. Seething anger.
I don't want our M to end. I want us to move to happier days togather. I want us to get past these dark days. I want my M to be a monument for the children to look up too. Someday, I want my kids to be able to say, "Wow, Dad and Mom set a really good example for me with thier R."
If you don't lose your anger your will fail at reconciliation. Start by exercising, making a list of all you are grateful for then read up on compassion.
Another suggestion is to look up "Learned Optimism" by Martin Seligman.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
This morning it was "You didn't tell me the workmen were coming today" and "You didn't take the garbage out". Jeez, I had a few things on my mind and I forgot these vital details.(See previous post). I didn't react to either of these statements just said sorry, it must have slipped my mind. Seething anger.
Next time, try saying "You're right. I'm a horrible husband. How could I forget such a thing? God, I'm terrible."
As for the rest, she's simply re-writing your marital history. Get used to it -- there'll be more. EVERYTHING will now be your fault. The marriage. The sex life. Hell, the war in Iraq will now be pinned on you, as well as global warming (or is it cooling now? or is it "climate change"???).
I'm a little fuzzy on the boundary thing, as this is horribly confusing:
Quote:
The consquence of not honoring the boundry were constructed to use her weight against her. I made it clear that failing to honor the boundry would result in her not being in a position to achieve her goals. In a direct sense, the consequences cut to the core of the cake eating. In other words, it is her desire to have her cakee and eat it to that prevent her from having what she wants.
Just what WERE your boundaries, and what were the consequences if she crossed them?
Thanks, Coach. Yeah, I am moving past my anger even though I am taking a lot of crap. Of course, I am imperfect in this and have weak moments. I have started exercising regularly and have made lists of things I am grateful for. I will read up on compassion.
Boundries. She wanted to discuss a possible investment. I stated I am only willing to participate on certain conditions(and listed the conditions). The consequences of failing to honor the boundries would be that she would not achieve what she wants. Now, you may have a different take but I think this was pretty good. It goes right to the heart of cake eating. If you want this, then you must do this. You can't have it all your way and expect me to be involved. Well, she didn't like it one little bit. Much seething anger was thrown at me. I was being unreasonable, it would be too compicated, yadda, yadda yadda. I offered ways to simplify the problem without compromising my boundary or the consequences. I should have walked away, but didn't instead I stayed and took a lot of crap and tried to offer alternatives. She wanted none of it. The more I proposed creative alternatives, the more entrenched she got. I found this interesting.
Boundries. She wanted to discuss a possible investment. I stated I am only willing to participate on certain conditions(and listed the conditions). The consequences of failing to honor the boundries would be that she would not achieve what she wants. Now, you may have a different take but I think this was pretty good. It goes right to the heart of cake eating. If you want this, then you must do this. You can't have it all your way and expect me to be involved. Well, she didn't like it one little bit. Much seething anger was thrown at me. I was being unreasonable, it would be too compicated, yadda, yadda yadda. I offered ways to simplify the problem without compromising my boundary or the consequences. I should have walked away, but didn't instead I stayed and took a lot of crap and tried to offer alternatives. She wanted none of it. The more I proposed creative alternatives, the more entrenched she got. I found this interesting.
WAY too complicated, Wonderful. When someone is in the fog of an affair, you have to deal with them on practically a 5th-grade level.
"(Wife), ordinarily I'd love to help you out on something like this, but I have decided that as long as you are having an affair, it would be foolish for me to do so. I won't take that financial risk. End your affair, and we can talk about it."
The 800 lb gorilla in the room and you ignored it. No boundary about her affair??????????????????????
Quote:
Boundries. She wanted to discuss a possible investment. I stated I am only willing to participate on certain conditions(and listed the conditions). The consequences of failing to honor the boundries would be that she would not achieve what she wants. Now, you may have a different take but I think this was pretty good. It goes right to the heart of cake eating. If you want this, then you must do this. You can't have it all your way and expect me to be involved. Well, she didn't like it one little bit. Much seething anger was thrown at me. I was being unreasonable, it would be too compicated, yadda, yadda yadda. I offered ways to simplify the problem without compromising my boundary or the consequences. I should have walked away, but didn't instead I stayed and took a lot of crap and tried to offer alternatives. She wanted none of it. The more I proposed creative alternatives, the more entrenched she got. I found this interesting.
You have no idea what a boundary is. Boundaries are about how you let other people treat you. Not what she gets! It's about behavior that is unacceptable to you. It's not conditional.
Quote:
If you want this, then you must do this.
This is controlling.
There is a very specific, concise and clear way in which we shared with you how state a boundary. You can continue to try it your way or try what works. This isn't our first rodeo.
Quote:
I should have walked away, but didn't instead I stayed and took a lot of crap and tried to offer alternatives. She wanted none of it. The more I proposed creative alternatives, the more entrenched she got. I found this interesting.
Yes, it's very interesting. It didn't work so you tried more of it. Noticing a trend here? Quit trying to be right and do the right thing.
Your listening skills need a lot of work.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I wonder if this is a MLC? Frankly, I don't see much hope at this point.
MLC? PLEASE STOP KIDDING YOURSELF NOW!
the more you write to defend your wife's mid-life crisis the more obvious it becomes this is a full blown affair. her behavior is typical. realize, whatever you do right now you are going to be wrong in her mind, get that through your thick skull asap. you are up against a fantasy, an infatuation, and it is hard to beat. The guy could be butt ugly and walk like frankenstein but in her mind he is a prince coming to rescue her from wonderful's tower dungeon and make her a queen.
I asked you some questions yesterday, answer them, lets get to the bottom of this, esp. phone records, how much she is gone, how much time they are spending together. it is all very important. the sooner you start talking about it the sooner you are going to make some realizations. get your head out of the sand or we will start calling you ostrich.
you're hope right now, is the dude is married. but it is best you start opening your eyes, before she lashes out at you or you get the dreaded "phone call."
Puppy, does the above response clarify my assertion of a boundry and the consequences. I thought this was pretty powerful on my part. It signals a strong stance something she has not seen much from me. Essentially I said, 'This is what I insist upon and if you are unwilling to accept these terms, then you will not get what you want.' It also put her between her cake and whether she can eat it too. The boundry was asserted in such a way to say that she cannot have both. Of course, she remains committed to having it and eating it and is exploring other ways to achieve that goal. But for me, I established firmly that I will not participate in the manner prescribed by her. The consequence is that she does not obtain the result that she wants. This is an important change. Heretofor, I have generally taken the tact that if I give her everything she wants, she is bound to respect me. She can't deny that the position I took last night is a substantial departure from my customary practice.
In fact, she has noticed a change in my attitude. "When did you become such a jerk." (My response, "When I decided that I was a jerk"). She also said "You haven't paid any attention to me in the last two weeks." Now, you can see from my posts that I have. In fact, i have offered support, kindness, and love but I have not been available for argument and R talk. My response to this attack was, "you asked for space and I have respected that." She broke off this line of attack immediately. But apparently she has noticed a change in my behavior and this is an important step. This is progress in the right direction regardless of the outcome.
You know, I am trying to avoid reacting to her comments. If having workmen show up was truly a problem, TS. If her having to take the garbage out one out of fifty times is a problem, TS.(Our garbage day recently changed and I simply forgot.) Any reaction would be taken as further proof that I am a bad actor. Simply saying, "Sorry, I forgot." gives her nowhere to go. I mean, she can say to herself "He always does X." "He never does Y." I can't prevent that but I can refuse to participate in it or fuel it.
Yes, she is revising our history. Much of how we percieve the past is determined by our present focus. This is not new. I have challendged her on this frequently. She is viewing me in a negative light to justify her own behaviors alay guilt and avoid personal responsibility.
