38 years & I need physical connection with my wife

[Young at Heart]

This post is a little longer than I originally intended, but writing it seems to have been good therapy for me.

I've been married for 38 years. We are both 60. My wife knows she is LD and knows I am HD. Our children are grown and living on their own. We feel that we raised them well. I really love my wife and I feel that I am her dear husband. In the good years she would push herself to have sex with me once most weeks (when I kept track it was about 43 to 48 times a year). Earlier this year it was once every two to three weeks. Before we were married and before we had children we did have a more active (but limited in variety) sex life.

I am HD and could have lived with sex once a week, but she hardly ever touched me outside of the bedroom. In the bedroom she also hardly touched me, when we did have sex. She will not touch my scrotum and will only touch my penis long enough to unroll a condom on it. I get almost no foreplay in bed. Again, when I kept track, she might hug me outside the bedroom or put a hand on my shoulder two to four times a year in total. I need to be touched by my wife and feel physically wanted by her. I really want to be hugged and experience being held tight by my wife. I really want foreplay.

In the past she always promised that when the kids were grown and less of a demand on her, she would find the time and energy for me. She also promised that she was saving sexual variety to keep the flame alive later in our marriage. It never happened.

In the past she told me she was too tired because of taking care of the kids, because of her work, because of the grieving over the death of her parents, or too tired because of the graduate college degree she was pursuing along with working a full time job. I supported her through all this and held out hope that she would eventually find time and energy for me.

Even thought she got her graduate degree a couple of years ago and the past two years I have made a point of traveling with her on great vacations to wonderful places, she still doesn’t have time or energy for me and my physical needs. We have a housekeeper who comes in every other week and a gardener that comes weekly. I do the dishes each night to help out with cores. I even cook some of the meals and do some of the grocery shopping.

Our intimacy has gotten much worse this past year. I understand that it takes a couple to solve problems in a marriage and that I must be part of our problem. I also understand that I can only change myself and encourage her to examine what she wants. Earlier this year just about every time we had sex, or were going to have sex, she would do something to ruin the mood for me, or the following day she would pick a fight to create an emotional distance between us.

It has been about 4 months since we last had sex. In my reading of the SSM, I feel that I may have done two 180’s, but I don’t feel they are working, or at least not yet.

I finally told her that I would no longer have sex with her until she really wanted to have sex with me and until she would not emotionally hurt me after we had sex. That was four months ago. She has seemed just fine with that. No complaints on her part, no trying to convince me otherwise. A couple of times, I told her that if she would model some new clothes she bought, I would make love to her that night. She has looked at me and said no thank your in a very pointed way.

A month ago, using the best couples therapy communications skills I could muster, I explained how I have a need to be physically touched and how she has promised me in the past that she would touch me more if she knew it wouldn’t lead to sex. I asked her what I can do to make it so that she feels more comfortable touching me. I asked her what I could change about myself that would make me more attractive to her or what I could do to arouse her to want me. We discussed this and other things. She said she knew how I felt and it wasn’t me and she was sorry I was feeling hurt. She said that my changing myself wasn’t the issue. She also said that she had no idea what I could do to arouse her.

That night I got bold and told her that I could do something to possible help. I told her that I would promise her not have sex with her for two months, so she could touch me with complete comfort in knowing that it would not lead to sex. I guess this was my second attempt at a 180. She seemed to accept that and I decided I had pushed the topic enough.

Well, in the past month she has “touched” me more than in the past, but far less than once a day. In bed, before she goes to sleep, she will reach over and put her foot against my leg. In bed, before she goes to sleep, she will put a hand on my arm. She will occasionally reach out and hold my hand. She has even kissed me goodbye in the morning, as I leave for work. She will definitely not hug me. She will not actively cuddle with me. She will not touch me in any way that resembles foreplay. Her touching is limited to what I would say a brother and sister might do.

While this is more “touching” than I have gotten in many years, I am no longer sure she is capable of an intimate relationship. I have not said anything and accepted what she is capable of giving; hoping that it will increase over time. I have given her foot rubs, massaged her back, stroked her hair with my fingers and cuddled with her when she will allow it. In such situations she will lay very still and not acknowledge me in any way or provide any feedback as to if it feels good or not.

During this past month on a couple of occasions when she was feeling particularly close to me (say after I have taken her out to a nice dinner or to a movie), she has tried to picked fights to create emotional distance. One time rather than responding to her attack, I just said I had a dilemma as she has told me in the past that I need to tell her about my feelings and when I tell her about my feelings she now wants me to just not talk to her. She then told me she was sorry and didn’t know why she blew up at me. She said she didn’t really want to hurt me.

Another time when she was in bed I asked her to roll toward me and hug me. When she rolled over toward me, I kissed her on the forehead. She didn’t hug me and she then yelled at me. Again, I didn’t get angry; I just said I was sorry if my actions had upset her. She then explained how she was now so upset that she would not be able to get to sleep for several hours. She further explained that she would not get enough sleep that night and that I had ruined her entire week. I again said I was sorry and I had not meant to hurt her. I suspect that she might have reacted so strong because she felt an urge to make love to me or at least be close to me.

I am incredibly sexually frustrated and starved for physical affection. I think that my wife has emotionally “checked out” of our marriage. I feel that after reading about how to cure the sex starved marriage book, I now understanding some of the issues better. I feel that I now can see an attack that is designed to draw me into a fight with my wife and I can now refuse to participate. I also feel that I can separate sex from emotional intimacy and try to work on both separately. I know my communications skills are better when I focus on the situation.

My wife has commented about my reading a variety of couples and relationship books and asked if I would like her to read any of them. I told her that I would like her to read some of them and then if she would feel comfortable about it, we can talk about them. She said she would. I have given her three books so far and I intend to provide her with a couple more before the end of the year. I am going to wait to see if she will read them or not. If not I will ask her to again. It is my hope that this was a sign that she will join me in trying to save our marriage.

I have already started researching local marriage counselors and certified sex therapists. I have further found a woman medical doctor locally who specializes in women’s sexual disorders and hormone therapy. It has been quite a while since my wife has gone in for a general physical and I know of no medications she is on that would suppress her libido. I do intend to suggest to her that she goes to this doctor for a medical check-up. I also intend to try to start counseling with her next year.

While I want to save this marriage, I am about at the end of my emotional rope. I am going to give it a few more months, but I don't think I can last another year.

I have started to work out and intend to do things for myself. I am going to put myself and my happiness as a priority. I hope that my wife and the mother of our children will also join me in trying to save this marriage. Right now I don’t know if I can find the physical love and intimacy I need with my wife. I just try to make progress one day at a time.

[SillyOldBear]

That is a lot to take in all at once. I think I'm going to come back, read it again, and then maybe I'll have something more helpful to say.

Until then, I'll just say that you're doing a lot of the right things, but any changes are going to take time. You may be surprised how long you can work on this if you can get to a place where you see progress. I felt I was near the end of my rope, too, two years ago--but I've made progress and now although I don't have everything perfectly figured out, I don't feel as lost.

[TeaEarlGreyHot]

Boy, do I know where you are coming from!!!!!

First, the bad news....being sexually intimate and having an appreciable increase in sex is not likely to happen. Why? Because you've given your wife permission (and the safety) to NOT be sexually intimate with you. The fact that she "had no complaints" or didn't attempt to talk you out of a non-sexual POV is the evidence. This does not mean that there isn't some other undeerlying physical condition that contributes to this, but you, like me, gave your wife the permission to be non-sexual even though lots of things led up to this.

You appear to view sexuality much the same as I do...it's an expression of who you are and the way you feel about your love for your wife. It's not something that you do to your wife, but something to be shared with her...except she no longer wants to share. There may be other underlying causes of this AND it's no fun being you in these circumstances.

Is there any good news? Well, you have lots of time to yourself to consider who you really are, beyond who you've already been in your life and to express that. You probably don't wish to threaten to leave because it's not an expression of your love and it's not who you are. Sexual intimacy is important to you but the worst thing that you could hear is that "all you really care about is sex" or "I could just lay there and hope that you'd get finished quickly."

Writing has some therapeutic use to sort things out and to see in your own words how you think.

As I said, I know where you are coming from and the process (and the future choices) may be pretty challenging. You may truly have to choose a sexless life or some other arrangment than you have now.

I feel your pain.

[ssmguy]

You have to understand how sex might appear to your wife after a long and slow reduction of sex drive. What if your wife told you she very much needed you to wriggle in a warm mud bath several times a week, or it would be a sign you didn't love her. After a while you find it annoying. And then ridiculous. And you don't understand why, if you've already done it that week, she needs you to do it again, only a day later! Didn't the last time prove to her that you did it because you loved her. And what if she was disappointed that you didn't like having a mud bath, and did it only to please her?

And after a while, you might become highly annoyed and angry if your wife wanted you to go to therapy and take drugs, and be examined both physically and psychologically, to find out why you aren't enthusiastic about mud baths. It reminds me of how I felt when my mother forced me to take piano lessons in grade school. There was something wrong with me because I didn't want to, and I resented that attitude at the time.

There is not necessarily anything wrong with not wanting sex. There are plenty of couples where both spouses want not sex, and they're happy. You don't see them in therapy.

The problem is that you're not compatible at this point. Now, that's NOT a solution to your problem, but it is an important PERSPECTIVE that will let you be kinder to your wife.

[Walking]

There are plenty of couples where both spouses want not sex, and they're happy.

Really? Where are these happy sexless couples?

I talk to a lot of women about relationships and sex and I've yet to come across one who admits to a happily sexless marriage .....

[Young at Heart]

...You may be surprised how long you can work on this if you can get to a place where you see progress. I felt I was near the end of my rope, too, two years ago--but I've made progress and now although I don't have everything perfectly figured out, I don't feel as lost.

Wow. I love my wife, but I had hoped that I would be able to either see progress in 6 months to 8 month or learn that things might be hopeless. Thank you for sharing your experience and helping me to better understand that progress might take years.

[SillyOldBear]

Well, no guarantees. First of all, even though we all keep finding things in common, nobody's situation is really the same as anyone else's, and although I think everyone here does it, looking at others and assigning yourself a time frame for success is a mistake.

That said, I guess it depends on your definition of progress, but certainly you could see progress in 6 months. You will not go from a long-term sex-starved marriage to a happy, well-balanced sex life in six months, though. On the other hand, moments that wouldn't seem like much to anyone else can be big boosts when you're used to an SSM.

I came to the forum about the same time I confronted my wife for the hundredth time and got blown off in a flood of tears, then started a sabbatical from all sexual activity (well, attempts) as per the SSM book. Not long after, I gave her an ultimatum: work on the marriage with me or we're headed for a divorce. That came out of my discussions here.

It only took a month or so to get to a point where we were talking very honestly about sex and love (despite her tears, which had always stopped me before) and trying to make love once a week. Sometimes that was great, sometimes it was awkward, but it was a hundred times better than the previous few years of making love once every one or two months. And I was beginning to get back into my old hobbies and some other things I'd given up in the marriage, because in my particular case I have some "Nice Guy" tendencies (there's a book on that, too, called "No More Mr. Nice Guy.") Eventually, we reached a point where she now tries to be open to sex, and we sometimes have it two or three times a week. More than that, I'm taking more control of my life, taking more of a lead in our relationship, and working toward my own goals. The more of this I do, the easier it gets to work together on our sex life. She's trying to do the same. We took a ballroom dancing class together, I'm doing some writing, she's taking some kind of weird dance-aerobic classes, and I'm making real progress on our old house rehab project.

It all feels good. But is our marriage fixed? Not really. For one thing, if we go too long without sex of some kind, I still get edgy and start thinking about her backsliding and going back to SSM. We had fantastic, mind-blowing sex ten days ago, but that was ten days ago, and right now I'm fighting the return of all those old feelings of anger and rejection. If you'd told me a few years ago that I could have the best sex of my life every ten days, I'd have asked where to sign, so I have to keep things in perspective. In the past, I've gone over a year without any sexual gesture from her at all. She's not perfect today, and neither am I, but now I know for sure that we're trying, and that makes all the difference. What I was trying to get across to Young at Heart is that as you contemplate fixing a sex-starved marriage, you think there's no way you can stick through it to the end. You don't account for the way your mindset will change when you have some positive things to think about.

It's been two years for me, but it hasn't been two years of the kind of rejection and fury and sick anger and hopelessness that I had years of before. It's doable.

[Young at Heart]

Boy, do I know where you are coming from!!!!!

First, the bad news....being sexually intimate and having an appreciable increase in sex is not likely to happen. Why? Because you've given your wife permission (and the safety) to NOT be sexually intimate with you.

....Is there any good news? Well, you have lots of time to yourself to consider who you really are, beyond who you've already been in your life and to express that.

.....As I said, I know where you are coming from and the process (and the future choices) may be pretty challenging. You may truly have to choose a sexless life or some other arrangment than you have now.

I feel your pain.

Thank you for knowing what I am feeling. I helps knowing that what I am feeling and dealing with is not unique. I read a number of posts and most of them were from people who had been married only a few years or had the stress of young children in the house. When I was there, I had the hope that things would change as the kids grew up and moved out. Now I have come to realize that I was waiting for my wife to keep her promise to me and that waiting patiently isn't going to result in my getting what I need. I realize that there must be things that I am not giving her that she needs or that there must be past pain I have caused her that has helped to create the situation we are in.

You comment about time to contemplate who I want to be is interesting. One thing that I have read and thought about is spending more quality time with myself and friends doing things that I want to do, rather than doing the things that I think my wife would like to do. There are also volunteer things I use to do that I could get back into that might serve as ways to boost myself-worth or image and help me stay more active.

As to giving my wife permission not to be sexually active, I hadn't thought of it that way.

I do understand that I really want there to be change in my relationship with my wife. Which is why I have initiated change by not having sex with her and deciding not to have sex with her for any reasong for two months. I had hoped that this might either shock her and make her question herself or make me into a challenge for her.

My hope is that prior to the end of the two months she will understand that I am changing and she either needs to change with me or watch me change and possible evolve into a life without her. I also have come to understand that if there is no desire for change by my wife or any commitment to help us (as a team) resolve some of our physical intimacy issues that I will need to end this marriage.


My intent is not to leave her in a month, but to at the beginning of next year to see about starting couples therapy with a certified sex therapist. If that fails, then my thought was to try a few more things before asking for a separation and possibly divorce.

Any suggestions on what kinds of steps might be most beneficial to saving this marriage would be appreciated.

[Young at Heart]

......assigning yourself a time frame for success is a mistake.

.....More than that, I'm taking more control of my life, taking more of a lead in our relationship, and working toward my own goals. The more of this I do, the easier it gets to work together on our sex life. She's trying to do the same. We took a ballroom dancing class together, I'm doing some writing, she's taking some kind of weird dance-aerobic classes, and I'm making real progress on our old house rehab project.

... What I was trying to get across to Young at Heart is that as you contemplate fixing a sex-starved marriage, you think there's no way you can stick through it to the end. You don't account for the way your mindset will change when you have some positive things to think about.

It's been two years for me, but it hasn't been two years of the kind of rejection and fury and sick anger and hopelessness that I had years of before. It's doable.

That is encouraging. Thank you. Are there any other specific suggestions you might feel would be helpful that you found worked.

I am curious about you statement....

...I came to the forum about the same time I confronted my wife for the hundredth time and got blown off in a flood of tears, then started a sabbatical from all sexual activity (well, attempts) as per the SSM book.

Specifically, I am now (as a "Nice Guy") committed to completing a 5-month sexual sabbatical and am probably going to try to start couples counseling near the end of that time-frame. (I am going to order the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" book for a change in reading material)

One thing I tried, but didn't work, prior to my sexual sabbatical was a 14-day cruise vacation with my wife. I had hoped that sleeping in, being waited on hand and foot without having to cook, do laundry, or any housework would have allowed her to rest and have energy for me. She enjoyed the pampering, even went to the hyper-expensive cruiseship spa, but she could not work up any enthusiasm for being physical with me. That was my wake-up call.

I liked the dance class lessions as that might be a way that we could be "physical" in a setting that she might more easily allow. Beside from what I have read, shared physical exercise is a libido booster for women.

Thanks

[Young at Heart]

You have to understand how sex might appear to your wife after a long and slow reduction of sex drive. What if your wife told you she very much needed you to wriggle in a warm mud bath several times a week, or it would be a sign you didn't love her. After a while you find it annoying. And then ridiculous.

....There is not necessarily anything wrong with not wanting sex.

....The problem is that you're not compatible at this point. Now, that's NOT a solution to your problem, but it is an important PERSPECTIVE that will let you be kinder to your wife.

You have definately given me some things to think about. I shall never think about mud baths in the same way.

I know that when we were dating and when we were first married that sex was something my wife seemed to enjoy. I also know that she use to enjoy a good orgasm in the not too distant past, like earlier this year and last year.

This morning I gave her back massage and she said it felt really good. I could feel her back warm up and sweat start to appear on her back as the blood flow increased.

So, while there may be nothing wrong with "not wanting sex," I know that it is not a foreign concept to my wife. I also know that physical touching is something she currently says she enjoys, but is something she doesn't want to give me at the moment (probably for a good reason to my wife involving something I did or didn't do).

I am trying with my sexual sabbatical to avoid pushing my wife to have sex(my way of trying to "be kinder"). I didn't suggest sharing or talking about the books I was reading on relationships with her, that was her suggestion to me. I think I understand what you are trying to say about pushing, as I hated piano lessons as well.

Any suggestions or activities for building compatibility? Again, thank you for the perspective and the things to perform some introspection on.