Long story short, H dropped the first bomb in Sept, then I found out he was having affair just about 1 month ago when he then finally said we are done. He loves her and was never in love with me. Classic MLC. It's been 1 month since he said he wanted a divorce, yet he's only slept out of the house 1 night, the night before Thanksgiving. We have a 4 year old. He is treating me like garbage, as if I did something wrong. I know that's his way of keeping his distance so it's easier for him, but I can't take it anymore. I decided this weekend to finally set some boundaries. However, we can't seem to get any alone time, and after daughter goes to bed is too late to start something like this. So I emailed him lastnight to say we would get a babysitter and go out either Monday or Tues to talk, which would he prefer. He wrote back and said tonight. I just need some support to get through this conversation. My plan is to start by telling him he needs to be open and honest and talk to me and get rid of this tough guy shell for the conversation. Then I want to ask him to tell me exactly what went wrong with us, since he hasn't told me yet. Then, I want to tell him that all I've been trying to do over the last month is be his friend so we can work on whatever issues we have and "try" to make this as amicable as possible. However, he's been nothing but nasty to me. I even said his haircut looked nice and he said "Why are you commenting on my hair?" So basically I want to tell him if he can't be amicable to me, I don't want him near me, and he can go stay with his brother full time. That is going to be the hardest for me, but I know I have to be strong and do it. A month ago, he said his plan was to stay at his brothers a couple nights a week after daughter went to bed. Like I said, he's only stayed there once so far, so I'm not sure how serious he is about leaving. Also, I believe he is still having the affair, and according to the EZ pass record, he went somewhere else besides his brothers on Thanksgiving, which he denies. (he doesn't know I checked the EZ pass). So I'm going to also confront him with the affair again. I know I can't stop him, but what kind of boundaries can I set around that if he considers our marriage already over and thinks he's in love with her? He never calls or texts her in my presence, he does it from his work email and work phone so I can't see. I'm following DR and for example, last night when he was making dinner with daughter, I walked out of the house without saying anything. All I did was go across the street to my parents, but he questioned me like 3 times, and I just kept saying I went out. So it seems the GAL and 180s are working, just not sure exactly how much. Sorry I rambled, I just needed to get it out and ask for your support with tonight's conversation. Any tips on what to say or not to say?
What are the consequences if the behavior repeats?
I feel _____________, when you do _________________. If you do __________ again then I will __________________. If you continue to do blank then _______________.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I'll defer to Coach on the boundary phrasing -- he's the best at that.
I will add, however, on the EZ Pass thing: DO NOT reveal the source of your intel! Ever.
Thus:
"I know all about where you went on Thanksgiving, and it wasn't your brother's. Please stop lying to me; it's incredibly disrespectful." If he asks you how you know, tell him "I'm not going to tell you that, but we both know that you lied to me." If he tries to lie to you again, put your hand up in the "stop" motion, and say "Please stop it. We both know you're lying to me right now, and it's incredibly disrespectful to me, to our marriage, and to our family."
Did you print out and save a copy of the EZ pass intel?
Whoooooooooaaaaaaa!!!! You sound like you are trying to shoot yourself in both feet at the same time.
Don't tell him what he needs to do. It is what you would like him to do. Cut all the R talk. Don't push him on where he is staying unless you want him out of the house more. Do not grill him on what went on in the M -- he has no idea and he has no interest in working on the R with you right now. That is your own agenda. And, altogether, back the hll off. If you give him more space than he wants, then he will not have to be a sht to you to create that space. Ignore him, do your own thing, leave him alone.
Pick no more than a couple of simple points to make.
1) It is not OK for you to treat me poorly by being rude or mean. Either treat me decently or move out.
2) I know you lied about your recent trip. Please stop lying to me.
Now, fair warning about two things:
3) Given H's eager acceptance of your invite, I fear he may be very ready to spill the beans, call for D, and move out right away. If you don't want this to happen, you may want to cancel your date. Generally a WAS will avoid R talk like the plague unless they have feel that they have made a firm decision to jump ship. Of course, if you don't give them the opportunity to announce and act on the firm decision right away, they'll often find themselves floundering once again...
4) If you push him to confess, then this may result in (3).
Most of what you want to do in your talk right now is going to push H away and be very unproductive. Even a talk right now is not going to be useful. He isn't interested in your feelings. He isn't interested in working things out.
My advice would be to cancel your date and communicate via email so that you can control the content of the discussion and stop your emotions from turning you into a grovelling mess.
"Dear H,
I've thought more about it, and I'd rather use the babysitter time to do something fun on my own. So, I'll just tell you here what I wanted to say (much simpler anyway):
First, it is really not OK for you to treat me disrespectfully, with meanness and rudeness. I am not willing to live with someone who treats me so poorly. If we cannot be under the same roof and treat each other decently, I will ask you to relocate.
Second, I know you lied about your trip. I don't want to debate it or hear your excuses. I simply ask that you show me, our marriage, and our family respect by not choosing to continue to lie to me.
Third, I find it stressful not to know what days I'll have the house to myself. I'd very much appreciate it if you could let me know which nights you will be at the house and which nights you'll be elsewhere. We could use a calendar or you could just let me know by email.
So, that's really it. We can bypass the drama of having an unnecessary BIG TALK, lol. I'll get cash to pay the babysitter and pay her when I get home.
Ciao, Refusingtogiveup"
Send the email now, then spend some time making plans for tonight. Have fun and avoid H altogether if possible. And don't forget to pay the babysitter.
P.S. If he asks where you are going, say "to enjoy myself, it really isn't your business. I need a break, some R&R... I choose not to continue to be more into this M than you are, so I really need to shift my focus and destress. See you later!"
I am so sorry you are going through this. You are exactly where I was one year ago. My W first told me she was leaving me in October, then I found out in December she'd been having an affair for months. Of course she said the affair had nothing to do with why she was leaving! Standard WAS script. However, my W was actually (mostly) nice to me, unless of course I gave her any grief at all over what she was doing, then she ripped into me.
I wish I had laid down boundaries like you are proposing to do. I followed the philosophy of "outshine" the OP, and although I had some success with it, it didn't do the most important thing, which is establish RESPECT in her eyes.
Quote:
My plan is to start by telling him he needs to be open and honest and talk to me and get rid of this tough guy shell for the conversation. Then I want to ask him to tell me exactly what went wrong with us, since he hasn't told me yet. Then, I want to tell him that all I've been trying to do over the last month is be his friend so we can work on whatever issues we have and "try" to make this as amicable as possible.
If he's in the throws of an A, there's no point talking about your M, he's not capable of it, and it will just hurt and frustrate you. He will be completely negative. And DON'T say you want to make it as amicable as possible! That's the big mistake I made. Don't make this easy on him. He is betraying your marriage, his actions do not warrant an amicable response. You are right to lay down HARD boundaries.
Quote:
So basically I want to tell him if he can't be amicable to me, I don't want him near me, and he can go stay with his brother full time. That is going to be the hardest for me, but I know I have to be strong and do it. A month ago, he said his plan was to stay at his brothers a couple nights a week after daughter went to bed.
I can't stress this enough. Your best hope of saving your M is to get your H to RESPECT you again. He is treating you like crap. I'd go farther than what you propose. Don't give him the option to stay simply if he treats you a little better. He's having an affair! I'd say something like: "I will not live in an open marriage and I will not share you with another woman. If you insist on continuing your behavior, then I will help you pack your things and you can go live at your brother's." Tell him you know he wasn't honest with you about where he went on Thanksgiving. If he denies, and starts to lie, just say "Stop. We both know you're lying, and it's very disrespectful." If he asks how you know, say "That's not important. What is important is that you're not being honest with me."
You have to be calm and strong, and stick to your guns. He will probably get very angry. Let him. He's acting like a selfish brat, so treat him like one. Do NOT think you can sway him back by being nice to him. That will only make him lose more respect for you. The hardest thing for you to accept is that, at least for now, he's not your husband any more, and you shouldn't treat him like he is. He doesn't deserve your friendship, your compassion, and your patience. Deep down he knows he's doing a bad thing, and he feels insecure about it, but he's contructed this big tough guy act to try to protect himself. Take away his control. You want to make him feel like this is all spinning out of his control.
My advice would be to cancel your date and communicate via email so that you can control the content of the discussion and stop your emotions from turning you into a grovelling mess.
"Dear H,
I've thought more about it, and I'd rather use the babysitter time to do something fun on my own. So, I'll just tell you here what I wanted to say (much simpler anyway):
First, it is really not OK for you to treat me disrespectfully, with meanness and rudeness. I am not willing to live with someone who treats me so poorly. If we cannot be under the same roof and treat each other decently, I will ask you to relocate.
Second, I know you lied about your trip. I don't want to debate it or hear your excuses. I simply ask that you show me, our marriage, and our family respect by not choosing to continue to lie to me.
Third, I find it stressful not to know what days I'll have the house to myself. I'd very much appreciate it if you could let me know which nights you will be at the house and which nights you'll be elsewhere. We could use a calendar or you could just let me know by email.
So, that's really it. We can bypass the drama of having an unnecessary BIG TALK, lol. I'll get cash to pay the babysitter and pay her when I get home.
Ciao, Refusingtogiveup"
This is very good. I don't think you're going to be able to avoid him for long, but this is a good approach for now.
Thank you everyone. I liked the idea of cancelling, but i just couldn't do it. I really needed to get everything out and get my self respect back. Obviously I knew it wasn't going to change anything and we weren't going to leave holding hands, but I think I got across what I wanted to. I began by saying I had a decision to make and I needed to make sure I had all the information and clear up what was between us before I made it. (My decision was whether or not to kick him out, but he didn't know that) Although he asked SEVERAL times what the decision was, I just kept saying it's something in my personal life and I am not comfortable sharing with you because you have not cared about me or respected me in the past month. He told me he was never happy and he settled for me and a few years ago realized this is not what he wanted, and that what made him unhappy was how I treated him and didn't appreciate him. I then told him that when he told me about the affair, I was angry and said mean things, but in about a week after that, I realized he was right, and that I was unhappy too, and that he had the courage to do what I couldn't. Also, about 2 years ago, I suggested counseling, because I was truely convinced we needed help. I told him that was my way of saying it wasn't working, but I didn't have the courage to bring up divorce and that I would have stayed married forever for our daughter. I explained that I started acting "as if" back then, and that I fell back in love with him again. (True story) Then I said over the past month after I got over the shock, all I tried to do was be his friend. I told him that we were really good friends before and that when our marriage doesn't work, I wanted to know that we could be friends and that maybe we just weren't meant to be married, we were just better as friends. He said he didn't trust that I believed it was over and that is why he wasn't being nice to me, but now that I told him I also wanted a d 2 years ago, he believed me. But then he made a couple of nasty comments and I said "You know what? I think you're right, I don't think we can be friends". And then he spent the next few minutes trying to convince me we could. He also said that his counselor, the same one who told me there was nothing more she could do for us, was telling him I was trying to save our marriage and that is why I was acting that way! He even said he googled save my marriage and my behaviors came up! I told him I was just trying to make us friends again for our daughter's sake, because I don't want to be those parents that have to sit across the auditorium for recitals. He said he would now try to be friends but I told him I would now have to think about whether or not that would work. At one point, his hands were shaking when we were talking and I asked him what was wrong, and he kept blowing it off. So towards the end, I asked if he had anything else to talk about and he again asked about my decision. I again told him I did not feel that because we weren't friends, I didn't felt comfortable sharing details in my personal life with him. I asked again if he had anything else, and he said no, and I got up and walked out of the diner. Our diner is 5 minutes away, but he took 30 to get home. I tried to call him because d was crying for him and saying "What if he doesnt come home", but he didn't answer. When he got home he said he went for a drive and why would he answer the phone after what just happened? So, any thoughts, comments? Anything I should have said or not said? And from here, do I just GAL and ignore him? He is still living at home and said he would stay until after Christmas for our daughter.
So, any thoughts, comments? Anything I should have said or not said? And from here, do I just GAL and ignore him? He is still living at home and said he would stay until after Christmas for our daughter.
I am always amazed when I hear people talking about setting boundaries. You seem to be doing the same thing that I see most people do regarding boundaries. You are trying to make a boundary that is easy on you and still keep your self respect.
However.. You are dancing all around the only boundary that is staring you in the face that needs to be addressed. That boundary is HE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR. THAT is the boundary. That is what you need to address. That is the boundary that will gain back your self respect and help him to respect you. You can try and make boundaries on other issues all day long, but until you get to the meat of the issue then you are just wasting time. If you were wanting a boundary from keeping your dog to leave the yard would you first try to set a boundary on stopping the dog from barking??? Wouldn't it make more sense to put up a fence? The barking has nothing to do with the dog gettng out of the yard. The FENCE is the boundary that is the correct answer, not the boundary on stopping him from barking.
The TRUE boundary here is this... "I have done some thinking and this is what I have decided. I think it is best that YOU move out. The sooner the better. I will not live in a marriage like this. I will not live with a man who is having an affair. I wasn't a perfect wife, but I now realize that I have tolerated you having an affair and I will not do that anymore. I want you to find another place and be out of here by________"(give him a week or two)...
Now, THAT is a boundary. THAT will get your self respect back. You are focused on trying to set boundaries that miss the mark. The boundary IS NO AFFAIRS. There is nothing else to talk about. If that is what he chooses, so be it. You will not be a party to it. Then let him go and let him see that you are moving on without him. He wants to be friend then? Let HIM try to be YOUR friend. You can be friendly, but trying to be a friend with a spouse in an affair is nothing more than pursuit and weakness. They sense that. (which you admit he basically said of you) He can't respect you until you SHOW him how tough you are and that a third person is not an option for you. THAT is the boundary. Stop being wishy washy about boundaries. Get right to the real boundary here.
