Thanks so much to all. Gave me a bunch of different perspectives. Oldtimer, you are right on some accounts about me judging his friends but I have my reasons. These are people who have told him that he should not be with me and be with the OW. They know me very well and have met her once. She is prettier and thinner, they said and that's reason enough to ditch me. But, they said, I left him and if a girl leaves you...you leave her..plain and simple. These guys all have cheated on their wives/girlfriends. I know this because I know these guys really, really well. Judge lest you be judged..I get it. But, honestly, I would prefer that my husband hang with people that wouldn't suggest that cheating on his wife was not only ok but leaving her was the perferable thing to do. To me, these men do lack character. I do to, at times. Expressly why I no longer hang with my friends who could potentially be a catalyst to behavior that I sometimes struggle with...not so soon in my recovery. I really do see what you are saying. I am affraid that they are a cover, I am afraid that he may see her with them and of course they wouldn't ever tell me and instead condone it. And yes, I would like him to be with me...but I also understand that is my CoDependance coming out. The biggest reason is that I simply don't trust him.
That said...I'm going to, of course, let him go. I am also going to go out. I'm going out as the person that I want to be. I am going out tonight to my CoDA meeting and then out to coffee afterwards at a coffehouse/mic night sort of place and then DD and I are going to see my brother play drums in a band tomorrow night. It's a free concert for the public. The truth is, we can't afford a sitter. I have to stay home.
There's more to all of this but I'll write more later tonight. Thanks again to all of you.
Peace,
gina B
M 43 H 34 D 4 H asked for D on 6/21/09:1st D mediation 7/27;D says he wants to try 8/18; *I will stumble, I will fall down but I will not be moved.(N.Grant)
Ok..I have a few minutes between laundry and going Thanksgiving day grocery shopping to flesh out my previous post. I have reread everyones advice and I really do think that going out tonight and GAL'ing are the right things to do. However, since I can't afford a sitter, GAL'ing means a night out with my daughter and my family.
I got home last night around 10:45 from the coffee house and CoDA. Very good meeting and I got alot of feedback about my situation. Following him is just simply not an option for me. For a codependant like me starting that type of behavior would lead to other really bad behavior. Also, Oldtimer brings up a great point. I also had an A. I know that I am asking and hoping that he trusts me and I am doing my level best to give all information about where I am going, when I will get there, my ETA home and if I'm even going to be more than 10 min off the ETA, I call and tell him so. He is doing that to some degree but has a ways to go.
The thing about him going out tonight that "hurt" and makes me suspicious is that I asked him to go out tonight with me in the middle of the week. A friend of ours is playing his last gig locally for awhile. He said "No, but you can go". I told him that I would think about it and let him know. I had decided I wasn't going to go and he suggested staying home and watching a movie. THEN, yesterday texts me and says he wants to go out with the guys.
I did tell him that this was the thing that was bothering me the most and he said he understood. He said that I am welcome to come along tonight if I want to go. Again, we can't afford a sitter right now so I can't go. And, truth be told, these are the last guys in the world I would want to spend time with. Anyway, today we have lots of "family stuff" planned and tomorrow too.
I have decided to just let him go out tonight and I am going to have a wonderful time as well. The bottom line is, if he is going to cheat on me, he'll do it on his lunch hour, on his way home from work or on a night out using the "guys" as a cover. Me going out too isn't going to NOT make him cheat. I simply cannot control him or his actions but I can control mine and I really don't want to follow him around. Plus, with a 4 year old in tow...that's a bit difficult.
Thanks to all of you again. I appreciate the honesty, directness and compassion all mixed in together.
Gina B
M 43 H 34 D 4 H asked for D on 6/21/09:1st D mediation 7/27;D says he wants to try 8/18; *I will stumble, I will fall down but I will not be moved.(N.Grant)
For the most part, friends tell you what you want to hear. Largely, H's friends are doing that. If he wants to hear that he screwed up and that you'll be lucky to get him back, then that's what he'll hear. So, just because he is hearing things from friends that you don't like, the same is probably true of you. Do you really think the WASs like hearing about the LBSs' friends talking crap about them and how they should stand for their Ms? I don't think so.
H's friends are people with their own weaknesses who want to make H feel good. Very standard stuff. What did people say to you when you left H?
The idea that you have "decided to just let him go out tonight" is pretty odd. Again, you aren't his parent. You don't control that. Quit thinking you can or should.
Now for the good stuff:
GREAT JOB telling H what bothered you. Now, how about, "H, what's up with jerking me around over weekend plans? That doesn't work for me."
AND WHAT'S UP with the no babysitter crap. You have a babysitter just as much as H does. There are TWO parents. AND WHAT'S UP with turning down H's invite due to the babysitter. How about "Sounds great, thanks for the invite. As my dashing host, you are on the babysitter, yes? Then perhaps I can get on you later."
Now, all that being said -- I suspected that you felt that H's friends were pulling him away from you. That is not a "lack of substance." Hanging out with a bunch of air-heads isn't very risky. And, neither should hanging out with men who act like a bunch of moral-less, chick-using, 16 year olds. But, I grant that it is surely (1) scary to see H hang with them and (2) RISKY behavior for H and (3) inappropriate for a GOOD reason that you haven't mentioned.
With respect to (1):
-- Fear is this case is authentic, and though perhaps overblown, not misguided. But don't go into mother mode to "protect him" from bad friends. He is a big boy. And it is really you and your R that you want to protect.
With respect to (2):
-- Quite matter of factly, even if you two wind up in heaven R-wise, it will be a bumpy road. You will BOTH be swinging wildly in how you feel and what you want. Your lives are CRAZY like teenagers. This is normal. Your lives are ungrounded. We flail. The problem is, when H is feeling low about the R, he is likely to act like a teenager, just like you did. (And, just like you will if this heads to D.) A crazy teenage male out to get some and screw over his girlfriend (but who in fact wants to stay with her) doesn't need to go out with his drinking buddies, get trashed, lose the remnants of his judgment, and wind up exactly where he doesn't want to go. I think it is fine to say: "H, our R is delicate, let's be gentle with it. We are both all over the place, so I think we need to be very protective until we are each on steadier ground. The last think either of us needs is a reactive night of acting out while partying that ends with the walk of shame and super-dread over what we've risked. This matters. If we are going to try, let's be good to our R."
With respect to (3):
Perhaps the most straightforward... It really is not OK for H to hang with those guys UNLESS he radically shifts the dynamic. H and I have a very simple rule: WE ARE NOT FRIENDS WITH PEEPS WHO AREN'T FRIENDS TO OUR M. Our M is too important. So, like I said, H's friends are to a decent extent just telling him what he wants to hear. How much they would push him toward anti-M views is truly VERY unclear. Look, if they are behaving badly themselves, then they already KNOW it sucks to live that way. Going along with H's debaucherie might help them feel better in some ways, but they also know better in some ways. ANYWAY, my point is that right now you can't see if they are really anti-your-M. BUT, given their behavior, the burden of proof is on H and THEM to prove that they are FRIENDS OF YOUR M. H could set some clear boundaries and clearly communicate his own views about his screw-up. He could quite simply ASK them to be FRIENDS to your M because a healthy M with you is the best way his life, his love, his family can go. He can make it clear that As and Gina-bashing are NOT-OK. And then, it is up to them to show that they are FRIENDS to the M. The burden of proof is on them. But, they are H's friends, so give them a fair chance. FINALLY, this is not a YOU telling H thing. You should really both agree to this principle and work together to see it implemented. If H isn't on board, it isn't necessarily wrong, but it does show you that his priorities are different from yours.
Hi! I am ok. It must have seemed like I dropped off the face of the earth. I didn't. Still alive, well and taking nurishment. Too much nourishment over the Thanksgiving week! :-)
So, gosh, where do I begin. Quickly I will say that the night out for my husband ended up being a learning op. for both of us. He never called me during the night as planned and I called him at midnight and never got an answer for an hour. He said he didn't hear the phone over the music and didn't have the phone on vibrate. I don't believe that for a minute. However, I do believe he was where he said he was because people I know saw him there and tell me he was "with the guys" only. That said, we did have a come to Jesus talk about how things need to happen when we go out in risky situations such as this. When I call, he needs to answer the phone. I explained to him that it's not just to give me contact but because we have a 4 yr. old child and anything could be happening when I call. I told him that when I called and he didn't answer I could've been calling him to tell him DD had a 105 temp and being rushed to the hosp. It was a very long night and few days afterward. He was apologizing profusely and I was accepting but def. acting much cooler and told him that I just needed time. I tried to explain to him that trust is almost like a balancing act. I give trust and when we agree to a plan and that plan isn't followed, then the mistrust creeps in and we're doing the backwards two-step. I think if I didn't have people who saw him at the club this would've been a very different situation. Of course my first instinct was to think of OW and my friends confirmation that he was with the guys helped that.
Everyday we are working on things. Trying to connect again. Trying to make time for each other when there isn't any. Thanksgiving was really terrific. All at our house. All holidays are at our house and big Italian affairs with lots of food, loud talking and and laughter. My nephew was saying to my H and I that he was going to be at his mom's in Utah for x-mas and really didn't want to go. He's 21 and I said to him that I was sorry that his whole life had been spent going from one house to the other because of the divorce. He looked at both of us and said "I know what you two must be going through but the fact that you are trying to work this out...I have so much respect for you. Being a kid growing up with divorced parents is not good and my parents got along better than most. You are always split. It's just not good". Ron looked at me and he was all choked up and couldn't really say anything. It was just a nice reality check for us. Our DD loves the idea of family. REAllY REALLY loves it. We put up our tree yesterday and after we were all done she had us all hold hands and sing Christmas carols and have a "family hug". She is just the most loving, sweet child. She would've been devistated by our split. I'm happy to say that it looks more and more like she won't have to endure that sort of pain.
Hallowell's assessment was short but got us on a path that has made all the difference in the world. I am now going to see psych to get perscribed meds. My appointment is in a few weeks. I"m excited but nervous at the same time. These aren't sugar pills we're talking about...these are serious drugs. He put us in touch with an ADHD Relationship Coach and we've been seeing her on Saturdays. Seeing her has made a vast improvement in our relationship and both of our behaviors towards each other. She is an hour and 1/2 away and we don't care. She is work every mile and every ounce of gas. I'm just going to give you one little thing that was a HUGE epiphany...We were discussing money and that H doesn't always give me all of his share of the bill money and I don't want to confront that. She asked him "When you don't give her all the money for the mortgage and the mortgages comes due, do you ever consider where that extra money is going to come from? Do you ever consider her and your daughter in this equation?" He said "No, I just know that she will find a way to make it work. She always does because she's so good at that sort of stuff". She then went on to explain to him that this was a typical ADHD son/mom sort of situation. The ADHD'er is irresponsible and the non-adhd'er is expected to save the day leading to resentment and distrust. However, in our case, I am an ADD'er that is just functioning at a higher level and the pressure of having to be the responsible one is leading me into an anxiety spiral. So, we are now working on these types of issues...communicating on hot topic issues and helping H to see how his behavior effect the family as a whole. This weekend was the first weekend that he took his med's faithfully, each day, since I can't remember when.
So, things are looking up. I'm sorry I don't have time to write more but I have to get at least a 20 min walk in before work.
Thanks for thinking of me and checking up on me. I hope you are well also and the holidays are peacefilled for you.
{{{{Oldtimer}}}} God Bless...!!!
M 43 H 34 D 4 H asked for D on 6/21/09:1st D mediation 7/27;D says he wants to try 8/18; *I will stumble, I will fall down but I will not be moved.(N.Grant)
Exciting news! I'd love to hear more about the ADD R Coach. Did she recommend any books? I used an ADD coach to finish my dissertation -- just couldn't get through it unmedicated while I was breastfeeding.
What meds are you taking? I've been wanting to get back on meds for a little while now, but can't seem to get organized enough to do it. ;-)
You might also point out that the mother/son thing is not particularly conducive to a hot sex life...
