A Little Epiphany - (and a newbie delurking)

[Gardener]

While I said what I needed to say, I didn't feel heard.

When he "comes back in a day or three", you must tell him this.

"Mom, there were valid reasons why Dia left. I had an alcohol problem, and I had an inappropriate relationship with her best friend."

This a man would, should do. Tell him you expect your man to do this.(although the "inappropriate relationship," certainly minimizes this betrayal in a Clintonesque sort of way)

There were a number of places of concern for me in the convo. I still see minimizing of the alcohol-related behaviors. Not good. Red Flag. I do not see an alcohol problem at present at all, but I still see some defensive sweeping-under-the-rug. Minimizing, Not accountable. Call him on this. I still see a lot of blame of me for things. What?!For example, at one point I was marking bottles so as to get a facts-based version of how much/how often he was drinking. Smart.For my part, I really did want the facts. He was telling the MC that he drank far less and far less often than I believed he was, and when I said I thought it was more, I was accused of exaggerating - hence my marking of the bottles. It wasn't so I could be 'right'. It was to find out if maybe I *was* exaggerating. Well, to him, the only reason I marked the bottles was that I was out to get him and I was case-building so I could build up enough pretext to leave. Nonsense! And the MC didn't call him on this? Sounds like he never owns his own behaviors. Very defensive about anything alcohol related = Big Red Flag.

These beliefs on his part only fuel the perception on the part of many people, including his mother, that the break-up was all Dia's fault. By leaving that perception unchallenged, he is tacitly reinforcing it. And "siding" with Mom. Over his wife! Is he a mama's boy.? If we're going to make headway with his mother, he needs to own his [censored] and let his mother know he contributed to the downfall. Tell him this . Word-for-word (although "contributed sound a bit weak, considering).

Re: the XBFF - I was talking very openly about the degree of pain I felt about that relationship regarding *her* betrayal, not just his, and he made a remark about "So this is why you've made her into such a demon?" Yeah, I corrected that one. /deadpan

Dia: Hmmm, when you say I've made her into a demon, I hear that you think I am demonizing her unfairly. Is that correct?

H: You're certainly up in arms against her.

Dia: Given the circumstances, I think my feelings about XBFF are reasonable and valid. I mean, where's the little voice that says, "You know, my two best friends are really having a hard time in their marriage, so seducing the guy would really be a bad idea right about now. Not to mention it would be a crappy thing to do to my best friend."

H: I don't think she thought things through that far. She was hurting over (her X-husband).

Dia: I'm sure she *was* hurting. So were you. But hurting doesn't make it right, and it doesn't mean it wasn't a betrayal of me. I was hurting, too. Does that mean it was ok for me to get involved with OM? So "I was hurting" justifies just about anything? It may make it *understandable*, but it doesn't change whether or not it was right, and it doesn't change how much it hurt people. He's not getting it, Dia.

So anyways, he needs time to process a lot of this. It was a long convo, and his M.O. is to mull things over slowly and then come back to me with them a day or three later. We'll see.

At one point in the convo I asked him if he knew what it meant to validate someone's feelings, and he said no. So I explained. Then I explained that for several years, I'd sensed tension between me and his mother, and when I had brought it up to him, mostly he'd told me I was wrong and just playing into the MIL stereotype. Now, with things in the open, it seemed pretty clear to me that there really *was* tension between me and his mother, so could he see how I would feel after years of having my feelings minimized and disregarded?

And he launched into an explanation of why his mother feels like she does. Siding with Mama over his wife.

/headdesk

Dia: Yes. I can see why she would feel that way. Can *you* understand how *I* feel?

H: <silence, long look, then very hesitant and unconvincing> ... yes...?

So, bottom line - H could do with some upgrading in the feelings validation department. What resources - books, websites, etc. do all of you recommend?

Dia, I don't know of any books that deal with just validating feelings, but I do strongly suggest The New Rules Of Marriage by Terry Real. Great book. Includes a lot of this. We even went to one of his 3-day
seminar once. Of course, given the state of my sitch, I could understand your having some skepticism on my recommendation, here. Trust me on this. Plenty of things re validation, conflict resolution, just plain speaking up. Excellent book!

And given how well-versed in this you are, I would suggest validating his feelings, and a few seconds later rewind the conversation and ask him, "how did you feel just then when I said X?" H answer. "Do you know what I did just then? I validated your feelings, H. Acknowledged them. Really understood what it must be like to be you and feel the way you do on X"
Lead.
Then suggest some practice sessions for him. Teach him.

My verbose far-more-than-you-bargained-for, far more than 2 cents.