Not sure what to do

[Montana]

Interesting.... We have a trip planned to Las Vegas next week. We considered not going or going seperately. We decided to go because the girls are extremely excited. Im sure also that we will be in seperate beds. BUT we will be in the same room and I am hoping this family time together can make a diffrence in our marriage....But I will need to be extremely strong willed and must be careful to follow the MR rules-no marriage talk! Im hopful that your situation will turn out for the best, so what the heck spend a little extra money on her...good luck

[stu321]

ok, Where do I start ?

We had the coffee last night. We were together for about 3 hours.

We had some tense moments and some laughs. We came to arrangements about our son for the next few weeks and Christmas. She invited me to go over early Christmas morning so I can be there when our son opens his presents. She said she would put breakfast on and then asked me if I wanted to go to church with them. She would then take him for Christmas lunch with her family and I would pick him up for Christmas dinner with mine. So I was happy with this (especially the morning, breakfast and church options)

We did talk about our relationship, but not about getting back together. I used it as more of a councelling session for us to discuss where we thought we went wrong. I told her I felt that our biggest issue was the way we communicated and that it wasn't her's of my fault. She told me about things that I did to either add pressure, make her feel like she wasn't enough woman for me, or why she thought I wasn't emotionally supporting her.

I apologised, and said that I never meant to do that to her, and it was the last thing I wanted, but again, it came down to us not being able to effectively talk about it. I also said that I thought I knew what she wanted, but I was wrong and I realise that now. I even said to her, that maybe this is a blessing in disguise, as I've had time to understand what is really important to me and to look at the way I am in order for me to become a better person and I won't be making the same mistakes with our son.

I told her that I didn't want to loose her friendship and she said that we won't be going out to a movie or dinner or anything, and that the only time we would get together would be to discuss our son or the properties. She told me that she wanted to meet with me outside of her home as she didn't want our son getting the wrong idea in that we might be getting back together. This was the same excuse she used for not wanting to join us on our holiday to Fiji.

She asked me whether I had cheated on her again and I said no. I said I would never do that to her or any-one while looking her straight in the eyes.

I know I shouldn't of got into the relationship talks with her, but I wanted her to realise that seriously looked at what had happened to us.

She is still full steam ahead with the divorce with no signs of changing her mind, but hopefully I've given her enough to make her think that I am changing (for me) which is what I wanted to achieve and I wasn't being needy or pushy and I didn't make mistakes like begging etc.

I called my sister last night and spoke to her about what we had said, and she said that if she was in my W's shoes, she wouldn't be able to sleep as it would definately make her think.

Any advice on what I should do now? I still havn't given up hope, even though is seems very unlikely that we will get back together. I could almost say it is 100% unlikely that we will get back together.

Thanks.

[Lost Rabbit]

Well you have rattled the cage now is the hard bit you sit back and you wait, what ever you do DONT PUSH/PURSUE for an answer, or to see if she has thought about it! Your sister is right she loved you once and even though in her script you have been put aside into a separate catagory remember how hard it is for you to forget her, she will however much she wants to ignore it be the same! She will see a fair bit of you no doubt with transferring your son back and forth over the holidays so you must keep up the new man and PMA image however hard it is, if you need to blub go do it out of sight. Well done on staying calm and sorting out the holiday period, you didnt broach too much into R talk just validated her which is good stuff.

[stu321]

Thanks Rabbit. I will only be seeing her once a week (while he is still at school) when I drop my son off. She gets him ready for school on Thursdays and I pick him up from school.

I did get there late, and she was waiting for me (it felt nice). I walked in confidantly and she commented that my new sirt looked good on me.

She did get teary a few times last night at different stages and while she was getting teary, she would shake her head as if to say "no, I don't want to hear it" (this would be when I was telling her that her stuff about communication and that I never wanted to hurt her and that I realise why we went wrong)

Even after she got into her car, I was standing at her window, and I said "for what it's worth, I never wanted to make her feel the way she did" and she got teary again. She didn't say anything. I said good night and walked to my car.

[bluerain]

Stu, now you need to go back to your hard and fast DBing. You followed most of the rules, and even though you went into the R talk, you didnt botch that either.

They say that the very first step is to reestablish your friendship with her. Her being emotional about it is a good sign, and shes probably saying all those "This doesnt change anything" types of thing to hear herself say it out loud, just as much as shes saying it for you to hear it. To remind herself.

So now that you have TOLD her what your going to do, and how you have changed- keep it up, and SHOW her that you have changed.

Im sure that it made her think, and Im sure that it wasnt a very restful night for you either, but overall, good job.

[sandi2]

She told me that she wanted to meet with me outside of her home as she didn't want our son getting the wrong idea in that we might be getting back together. This was the same excuse she used for not wanting to join us on our holiday to Fiji.

To me that pretty well sums up her decision, but we never know when somebody might change their mind before time for the trip. If she had used some other excuse, then I would say to hope she'd go for the sake of the son. Don't ask her again. If you do, then you will be pushy and it will turn her away. She knows you want her to go, so if she changes her mind, she will let you know.

Not to disagree with bluerain, but I guess I see your W shaking her head at what you said a little differently. I think she may have felt as if she had already been down that road and perhaps didn't want to do that anymore, but IDK your thread that well.

The same about what your sister said about your W not being able to sleep and that you gave her something to think about. Maybe I'm thinking like a WAW, but why would she not have already thought about the things you said??? And why wouldn't she be able to sleep??? Just b/c she got a little teary eyed...or b/c you told her something new? I don't think so, and I don't say that to be sarcastic whatsoever. I think your sister was telling you what you wanted to hear, and that is why the book says do not discuss our R with our relatives & friends. It is hard for them to be as objective or to tell you what you need to hear.

I'm just saying that most times conversations about the R with a WAW is not that productive.....as far as the LBH thinking he is going to change her mind by talking to her. Let's be honest, you did hope she would change her mind, right? Why else would you bring it up? I know what you "said", but in truth, why would you bring it up? The only thing you may have told her that she did not already know was about cheating on her. All the other things you said to her......you arent't telling me that is the very first time in all of your M that any of that has ever...ever been talked about? I don't think I've heard of a couple that got a D that the R was not discussed, so I doubt that you told her anything you have not already said before or that she didn't know.

I didn't say this to tear any hope down, but I think you need to see it from another POV. After this, maybe you will feel better, but the thing with a lot of LBH's is that it doesn't last long until they want to talk again.....trying to change her mind. So, I hope you can move forward and not pursue her.

[bluerain]

Not to disagree with bluerain, but I guess I see your W shaking her head at what you said a little differently. I think she may have felt as if she had already been down that road and perhaps didn't want to do that anymore, but IDK your thread that well.

Not at all Sandi! If we all knew what people were thinking, and could decipher body language, none of us would be here! I guess I just see the emotion as a better sign than apathy.

[stu321]

Wow, talk about being shot down.

Sandi. You are right, I have said some of this stuff to her before, but the difference this time is that I am also showing her with our son

Not to disagree with bluerain, but I guess I see your W shaking her head at what you said a little differently. I think she may have felt as if she had already been down that road and perhaps didn't want to do that anymore, but IDK your thread that well.

She may be thinking this also, I honestly don't know. I guess reading what you wrote also makes sense to me as I can see her doing that as well.

Let's be honest, you did hope she would change her mind, right? Why else would you bring it up? I know what you "said", but in truth, why would you bring it up?

I was prepared before hand that this would not be a conversation that would get me my marriage back, so I didn't go into with that in mind. I honestly can't remember how we got onto the topic of the relationship, whether it was my or her.

The only thing you may have told her that she did not already know was about cheating on her. All the other things you said to her......you arent't telling me that is the very first time in all of your M that any of that has ever...ever been talked about? I don't think I've heard of a couple that got a D that the R was not discussed, so I doubt that you told her anything you have not already said before or that she didn't know.

No, I won't tell you that, cause we have discussed it before, but like I said, we talked about it, but never really understood what each other was trying saying. Again, it goes back to effective communication, and thats the point I was trying to make with her. That I've realised why we we not communicating and as a result, not resolving anything.

but I think you need to see it from another POV. After this, maybe you will feel better, but the thing with a lot of LBH's is that it doesn't last long until they want to talk again.....trying to change her mind. So, I hope you can move forward and not pursue her.

I can understand why it doesn't last long before a LBH wants to discuss it again. To be honest, I would discuss it with her again right now, but I know it wont do me any good and it would push her away. Whats the general rule (1 month for every year of being married), so in my case, I guess I'm expecting it to take 11 months. Yes, it will be hard, and I hope she doesn't find some-one else in that time.

Bluerain was right about re-establishing the friendship, and this in itself will be difficult as she has trust issues with me, but it's what needs to be done before I can even hope for some sort of reconciliation. Again, I just hope she doesn't find someone in the mean time.

[stu321]

Hi guys, I really need some help. After the last posting from Sandi, I've become really depressed.

I was feeling fairly good, but I guess I was only seeing the positives out of our coffee last night and not looking at the negatives.

I desperately want to call her and beg for another chance, but I know I can't and if I do, it will push her further away. I've pretty much lost all hope now and figure it can't get any worse than it is right now.

I hav'nt called as I'd like to see what people have to say first.

I've always envisaged my life with my w and son and am really stuggling to see anything different right now. I've always pictured us getting old together, retiring together, travelling together and just being together.

[bluerain]

If you call, you will undo everything that you have managed to work your butt off to accomplish.

It might not seem like much right now, but it is. Do NOT do it.