Pls help--confused and fearful

[Day by Day]

Moving to this forum from Newcomers now that I have confirmation of A over a week ago.

My H will not face me, will not admit A to me and has not filed although he says he wants D. I am utterly confused by his behavior.

I found out about A from OW's exH and that everyone at work already knows since they have not been discreet. My H told me not to believe him and that he and OW are "just friends". This OW is a gold-digging homewrecker that works with my H. My H has a powerful position in the co and earns very well. My H left in May and she divorced her H in August.

I'm hoping by letting H know I know and that everyone at work knows, the attraction of secrecy is gone. I do NOT want this OW getting her hands on our $. I don't know how to draw my H's attention away from her. It seems as though he is strongly attached to her and it's been since before he left in May. He probably feels obligated to her since she divorced her H for him.

I'm disgusted by the A. I'm confused. I don't want him, but don't want this OW in my kids' life. I'll keep standing for my M in hopes that he sees the light and realizes what he is doing to our family. He is extremely selfish and arrogant right now and treats me with anger and rejection.

It just seems that my H is mentally disturbed and I feel bad that this man is my kids' father. I don't know what to do.

I've been GAL and doing 180s. My reaction to learning of the A is a definite 180; I was calm and composed. The kids know but are afraid to let him know since he threatens them with taking $ from them for their activities. The kids (D13, S12)say he is acting very guilty and buying them whatever they ask.

I just want to get my H back from the OW and will wait to see if he is sorry for what he is done and want to work on the M.


M 17yrs
T 20yrs
Me 40
H 39

[newmama]

Day by Day,
good job keeping up with GAL and 180! My short answer is keep doing what you are doing. He has threatened to file but hasn't done it yet. He is most likely defensive because you and his work (recently)found out about the A.

How often do you and the kids see him? How have you been acting toward him? What changes have you made that you hope he will notice?

I, too,do not want to divorce and do not want OW to see my baby but just started consulting a DB coach and am tolerating WH to take him to her Saturday mornings. Why? Because it is a 180 of what he would expect. I am not making any drastic moves until after the holidays and then will reevaluate based on results (I have noticed small positive changes in my WH's behavior over the last couple of weeks....)

[Day by Day]

H does not speak to me on the phone. Contact is by email or text and we do not see each other in person. This is why I am so confused! He can't FACE ME. He has been pretty aggressive and angry towards me for months. I think it is his guilt but it strongly feels like rejection.

When I emailed him that I found out, he asked for a 2 hr counseling session with the counselor instead of talking to me alone. But he didn't admit to affair and said he'd talk about it in counseling.

H sees the kids every other weekend for a few hours and on every Monday for a couple hours. He seems detached from them too. I did try before I found out about the A to be friendly and happy around him when he would come to get the kids. Or I would make sure I had a nice meal for him when he came on Mondays. No effect at all. Now I avoid him completely.

I feel I've been screwing up since I dropped off the DB site and think I've been pursing. Ugh. I wrote him an email that said I still care for him and him showing his anger towards me won't change that. Moment of weakness. I really feel like I'm spinning in confusion in how to act. NC hasn't seemed to work in my sitch. I do not want to be a doormat and I'm afraid I'm coming of that way to him. OW is a manipulative person.

Changes I've made: Made a lot of new friends, going out a lot, took a road trip with my new girlfriends, lightened my hair, lost 20 lbs, changing my clothes (old ones don't fit anymore, anyways), praying a whole lot (who doesn't in our sitches?), and learned to deal with anger. These changes have been for me since I need to distract myself and get happy and get a life! He doesn't seem to notice a thing!

[newmama]

I think I read somewhere that even the smallest most consistent action on our part will be noticed by the WS. SO, just be consistent from this point forward and be patient. Let's see...
I first thought that 180 meant following that list. But now I get that it means what 180 means--do the opposite of what you normally have done. That list out there is a description of the opposite of what most of us have done--begging, crying, buying gifts, saying I love you, etc. But 180 for me is also being a better housekeeper, not crying, not complaining, cooking, and I should be asking him more about himself.
I think you know this.

The other thing I have been learning that if one approach or strategy isn't working (i.e. you aren't seeing changes in his behavior) after a set period of time, then do something different. I don't know what the period of time is, though. 4 weeks?? 2?? 6??

Also, my DB coach told me to think of things I do for WH in terms of caring behavior or chasing behavior...not cake eating enabling. He said it is caring if it is something you would do for your brother. Chasing is making your WH talk about the relationship, being seductive or sleeping with him, stuff like that.He said "cake eating" is letting them get all of their needs met by you AND OW.

Do you know your WH's emotional needs? There is a free survey on another website (don't know if we can say it) but it's the same website of the counselor and author William Harley and it seems very compatable with divorce busting.

All right, sorry to ramble. I guess I just think this: if what you were doing wasn't enough to get a positive change from him, do something different. Other experienced and successful divorce busters may disagree with me...I am only trying to implement various techniques from Weiner-Davis' books and my DB coach.

You could sign the emails and texts with Take care! Have a great day! but continue with your GAL. Nothing wrong with being caring.You can also go back to being happy to see him when he shows up and I am sure you were looking good and smelling good,too.

How long did you make the nice meals on MOndays? You might need to do it for 4 or 6 weeks before you get a reaction ???? I am clearly not a success story yet so take my suggestions with a grain of salt.


Oh--a question--has he told you that he wants you to meet someone else and be happy some day? (My WH HAS NEVER said that to me.)

[newmama]

Oh I forgot--- try to let him find out that you are going out a lot or making new friends but not in an obvious way. Like can you see if he could take the kids a little longer one day because you have plans or leave any brochures out when he comes...there are other ways.

[Day by Day]

Can you explain the cake eating, caring and chasing you were talking about? I have been trying to be caring in spite of how hurt I am about learning of the A. I end emails with a Take care, have a nice day, have a safe trip, etc. I drop the email convo when he gets sarcastic.

I believe his Love Language is words of affirmation, so that's why I make sure that I thank him all the time for paying for things, getting things done, etc. But, I feel the OW has access to him everyday and is stroking his ego. Don't know how to out-do that. With the Harley site, I think his need is admiration...

I did the Monday meals for probably 6 wks and it didn't seem to have a positive or negative effect.

H did in the beginning tell me that I deserve to be happy and find someone who can love me better.

I just hate how H has moved on so quickly but now understand it's because of the OW. I feel like a ghost.

It's going to be hard to act all happy around H next time I see him after how deeply wounded my soul feels. He's pretty angry and it feels like he wants to use any opportunity to hurt me. Like he is blaming me for his sitch w OW.

His sister is on my FB, so I'm sure she keeps him updated on what I've been posting. I post about the fun I'm having and I keep adding new friends all the time. She makes comments on my page. Our daughter learned that he watches her own FB page like a hawk and says he is "stalking" her. She puts everything we do together on there.

Thanks again for keeping up with my thread!!

[P17]

Can you explain the cake eating, caring and chasing you were talking about?

There is a good article (that I seem to tell everybody about!) about detachment that has really helped me: http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/ - it explains how to detach and what it means and doesn't mean (detaching doesn't mean you don't care).

Cake eating - he is effectively getting his cake and eating it. He has a caring loving wife. He has kids. He has a home. He has a life with you. He has OW. He get's to be the bad boy with her. He get's to be the daddy and husband with you. He has an affair and the excitement and secrecy that brings. etc.

He has the best of all worlds. If we are all honest, I think most of us would quite like a life that was above with no guilt, pain or consequences. That is what your H has.

I have been trying to be caring in spite of how hurt I am about learning of the A. I end emails with a Take care, have a nice day, have a safe trip, etc. I drop the email convo when he gets sarcastic.

I'm in two minds whether to drop the email conversation when he get's sarcastic. He is doing it to get back at you. Best thing you can do when somebody is trying to get at you is ... to ignore it. Respond to his emails, ignore the bad points or validate them even, if they are important enough.

But, I feel the OW has access to him everyday and is stroking his ego. Don't know how to out-do that. With the Harley site, I think his need is admiration...

My view on this is that you can't out-do it. No way. Won't work. Stop trying to as it will look like needy and pursuing.

One thing you have to remember in all of this is that he has known OW through the A for 5 minutes. He has been with you for 20 years. 20 years is an awful long time. You have already out-done her, if you want to look at it that way, before you have even started.

Love isn't about a quick one here and there, the grabbed kiss, the secrecy, lies and deceit. Love is about shared memories of the kids growing up, your first holiday, your wedding day, caring, understanding, making love (note that's not sex).

I did the Monday meals for probably 6 wks and it didn't seem to have a positive or negative effect.

How about not doing them suddenly - will that have an effect.

H did in the beginning tell me that I deserve to be happy and find someone who can love me better.

I'm sure he did. That's called alleviating his guilt and putting himself down as he has been 'bad'. Ignore it. Remember one golden rule - listen to nothing of what he says and only 50% of what he does.

He will also say a whole lot more to you than that. Ignore it all as most of it will be designed to hurt you and alleviate his guilt. And trust me, he has guilt by the bucket loads.

I just hate how H has moved on so quickly but now understand it's because of the OW. I feel like a ghost.

It looks like he has moved on so quickly as he is 'in love' with OW. You need to accept that. It's love in the traditional sense with those chemicals running around the brain. Two things though - real love, like the love you and H had / have, is built on friendship, caring, children, future, trust, respect; OW love is built on lies, deceit, secrecy, guilt, pain and hurt. Which one do you think you would rather have?

To compare you with my sitch. If my W had moved on so quickly, why was she still around here 1 - 2 times a week to spend time with my D, snooping in my house, asking D if Daddy had a girlfriend etc. etc. Ask yourself the same question - if H had moved on so quickly why was he coming around for meals etc.?

Answer is, because they haven't moved on. They SAY they have. But remember again - listen to NOTHING of what they say (I have moved on) and only 50% of what they do (they come around for meals - that's not moving on behaviour).

It's going to be hard to act all happy around H next time I see him after how deeply wounded my soul feels. He's pretty angry and it feels like he wants to use any opportunity to hurt me. Like he is blaming me for his sitch w OW.

Ahhh, but you see it IS your fault, isn't it? Just like it's my fault, newmama's fault, etc. It's ALWAYS our fault. You need to understand that. He will blame you for EVERYTHING. and I do mean EVERYTHING. Because you drove him into the arms of another woman ... it's script.

He does this because he feel a huge amount of guilt. When you are hurting, what do you do? You lash out at the one closest to you to try and make them feel as bad as you by blaming them for things. If you shift the blame from you to somebody else, you will feel better. Again, it's human nature. Nothing you can do about it. Listen, validate and let is wash over you. Easier said than done. Takes practice and self-discipline.

Our daughter learned that he watches her own FB page like a hawk and says he is "stalking" her. She puts everything we do together on there.

Of course he does. Human nature. He doesn't understand why you are having such a fantastic time without him. You should be a broken woman.

Maybe you want to consider removing him as a friend from D's FB? And his sister from yours?

You mentioned NC didn't work in your sitch. How long had you been doing it?

[newmama]

Day by Day,
I think I glossed over the reality of something big--you recently found out about his A. Do you still want to reconcile in light of this? I only ask because maybe for you, it has changed something.


you can take a break from doing anything to divorce bust as you weigh this decision. The GAL is for you, after all.

If you want to actively divorce bust, then choosing strategies is what it's all about.

NC is an ultimatum strategy with one final chance to reconcile. Otherwise, it would just be us filing for D, right?

Okay...taking a break means you don't employ a strategy yet it may look like the standard 180 list since you continue with your life, reply to emails with just basic info (no friendly closings etc.) and when you see him you are not angry or overly friendly, just neutral.

If you do want NC it means finding an IM so you have 0 direct contact whatsoever.

Another strategy is doing the opposite of like being happy when he expects you to be angry or sad. He will see that you are not devestated and will move on regardless. You become more appealing.

Letting your FB page show you are GAL shows same message--getting on with life, happy, he is not the end all be all.

NC (with the letter) sends the strong message that you are 100% serious about reconciling OR divorcing and it lets him experience life as it would be like divorced. But you have to be ready for the divorce if he chooses it.

NC moves us off of our fence as well. (That's why I am not ready for it yet but am trying other strategies first. I want to do a bang up job of NC when I do it)

In summary: choose to do nothing different as you decide what you want, choose NC, or choose to do the opposite of what he expects along with GAL. (GAL should be done regardless of anything)

[Day by Day]

@P17 -- Thank you for your long reply! (Newmama too.) I started reading some of your thread and hope to get through it soon. I'm learning a lot in this forum. I so appreciate the kind support.

With NC, H seems to get angrier and less cooperative. But, I'm thinking I need to go back to it. Or at least go very dim. Like newmama said, it moves us of our fences. I don't want him back without him asking for forgiveness or wanting to reconcile. I have to face the facts that I'm not seeing either of those.

I do see the guilt though, but it's not enough to make him wake up. But I guess you are right about the lashing out to try to alleviate his guilt. He is just too mean = tons of guilt!

I had an appt with my IC. I so needed it because of the hurt I feel and my confusion. She is telling me to move on and file for D and that he is the wrong man for me. But I am not going to file and if I do, it will be after the holidays. I'm too emotional to even work on that. I need to process everything first. I'm going to keep working on healing myself. I hate this situation. I'm not ready to shut the door on this.

[P17]

With NC, H seems to get angrier and less cooperative.

You're damn right he does. You're not following HIS plan anymore.

It appears that all WAS have a plan. And that plan, from the limited experience I have on these forums and from my own sitch, seems to always include the same key elements - the LBS, the kids (if there are any) and the OP. So they get to give the LBS the blame and also get the EN's from them that they have always had. They also get to be the best father / mother they can be by pretending that it's not hurting the kids yada yada. They also get the sex, the excitement, the secrecy from the OP.

They all appear to do this. They all appear to be unable to 'move on' even when they say they are. They all appear to still cling to their old lives even though we are all bad people.

WAS's, in my mind, have little control over their own lives. They have walked away from a secure home, family, finances, etc. to a place which they don't know. They are walking into the unknown. The only thing they actually have when doing all of this is their 'plan' - and than plan is as above.

When you take any element of that 'plan' away, they have little left to fall back on. When all they are left with is the OP, who is an unknown, it can be scary.

When you get scared .... you lash out.

Your H is getting angry because you have screwed up his plan - how dare you! He wasn't ready to quite drop you like a stone. He wanted his cake and eat it. And you, the terrible W have ruined it for him.

Because he is getting angry, I'd keep it going. That is just my view though.

But, I'm thinking I need to go back to it. Or at least go very dim. Like newmama said, it moves us of our fences. I don't want him back without him asking for forgiveness or wanting to reconcile. I have to face the facts that I'm not seeing either of those.

If you keep doing what you are doing you will get the same results.

When you go full NC, two things happen. The WAS does in fact walk away and that is that. Or, the WAS starts to get nasty, angry, abusive, desperate, clingy, needy and teary ... probably in that rough order. However, NC is not about him, it's about you and how you can deal with the situation.

If he walks away you know the M is over. You have your answer. If he comes back clingy, needy etc. then you also have an answer.

The decision on what to do though is still yours.

I do see the guilt though, but it's not enough to make him wake up. But I guess you are right about the lashing out to try to alleviate his guilt. He is just too mean = tons of guilt!

Human nature. Guilt won't make him wake up. Not on it's own. A realisation one day of what he has lost will do that.

I had an appt with my IC. I so needed it because of the hurt I feel and my confusion. She is telling me to move on and file for D and that he is the wrong man for me.

First point. You have the wrong IC. Ditch him / her immediately. A counsellor is there to make you face the choices in your life by asking you the right questions of yourself. They are not there to tell you who is good and bad for you. That is YOUR decision.

Ditch the counsellor now. I'd be surprised if anybody else suggests something different.

But I am not going to file and if I do, it will be after the holidays. I'm too emotional to even work on that. I need to process everything first. I'm going to keep working on healing myself. I hate this situation. I'm not ready to shut the door on this.

I am having good success with NC myself - W has tried to break it and test my boundaries a couple of times but I would not recommend it to anybody else as I believe it will break my M and not fix it. However as you said, you need to work on you. You need to find the strength to make the tough decisions - and trying again is as tough as ending it.

There is no rush to file. Do it when you have the strength and commitment to follow it through. Do NOT do it to make your H come back as that is never a good idea. Alternatively, forget about filing and let him do it. Let him put his money where his mouth is.