Is this the end of my marriage?

[P17]

EN = Emotional Needs. She knows that they are gone now. Its different than what was happening before.

Is this what I read earlier - OM meets EN's 1 and 2 and LBS meets 3 and 4. When LBS goes dark, OM must meet 1, 2, 3 and 4?

I would take all that stuff of hers and drop it off with IM.
Have IM contact her to pick it up. Put it in garbage bags. Anything else of hers left you should get rid of as well. Or play the game of her needing one more thing... Just one more thing....
Remember this is what IM does.
Do not drop it off at her work.
This is not life and death or very important stuff about the R.
Keep to your boundaries.

Okay, done. It is EASIER for me to drop it off at her work, however that isn't the point. IM can arrange with her where SHE can pick it up.

I did get the distinct impression in W's email that she thought I was some kind of delivery service.

I am going to setup an email rule to forward all future emails from W to the IM. I didn't do this before as I didn't know her email address!

[jumpyninja]

P17
I am torn as to whether you should respond or not. The reason I am torn is because NC is supposed to be for your benefit and to allow you to heal. It is difficult to maintain NC when there is a potential for conflict. So it may be better to avoid conflict by allowing her to get what she wants as opposed to fighting her for personal belongings. You could schedule a time when she can come and get stuff when you are not around. That way she can get her stuff without you having to worry about seeing her or fighting over silly personal belongings that really don't matter anyway.
On the other side though, you could explain to her that she has had plenty of opportunities to get her belongings and that by asking for more possessions she is not respecting your wishes. The advantage here is that it shows you have backbone by reinforcing the NC. Perhaps she will get the message. And even if she doesn't, that means she'll have to pursue you. So on some level it's a win-win.
If you decide to contact her, your first line should reinforce the NC. You should then address any attempts to break it. That means telling her that she need not buy a Christmas gift for D because all that will do is remind her that her stepmother is no longer around. This will make her feel uncomfortable, and that's a good thing. NC is supposed to make you feel strong. Frequently it makes the other person feel not good. Secondary benefit.
As for the e-mail, I'm in that same boat. My W still uses her married name on social networking sites. That's the cowardice and fear. A thrive on secrecy, and her situation thrives when the masses do not know. Hence, the e-mail name to conceal her activities.

[P17]

P17
I am torn as to whether you should respond or not. The reason I am torn is because NC is supposed to be for your benefit and to allow you to heal. It is difficult to maintain NC when there is a potential for conflict.

I will arrange for her bits and pieces to be with the IM and the IM can arrange with her when she can pick it up. The house here is not her house anymore and I have no intention of letting her be in it while I'm not here!

On the other side though, you could explain to her that she has had plenty of opportunities to get her belongings and that by asking for more possessions she is not respecting your wishes. The advantage here is that it shows you have backbone by reinforcing the NC. Perhaps she will get the message. And even if she doesn't, that means she'll have to pursue you. So on some level it's a win-win.

This is bugging me. She has had ample opportunity to get these bits and pieces before she left. In fact I remember when she left she said she would pick up the 'stocking' later (and never did). This will go on as she remembers more and more things she left, no doubt in a deliberate attempt to keep things going and to keep H here dangling.

If you decide to contact her, your first line should reinforce the NC. You should then address any attempts to break it. That means telling her that she need not buy a Christmas gift for D because all that will do is remind her that her stepmother is no longer around. This will make her feel uncomfortable, and that's a good thing.

I am considering asking the IM to contact her about this as I don't want D getting a Xmas gift from her for these precise reasons. D NEEDS to forget about W and move on with her life. We both do. I know it may seem cruel but constantly getting gifts and cards from W is not going to allow my D to forget and move on. My D's birthday is in the middle of January so we will be visiting this situation again if I don't make it clear now.

Asking IM to do it again reinforces the NC and reinforces my boundaries. ALL contact must go through IM.

On the other side of this I thought that the NC made it clear that there was to be NO CONTACT except for two reasons. It also made clear that D and me will move on with our lives without her. How the h*ll can we move on with our lives when she is STILL getting involved with us, buying D presents and asking for me to drop stuff off for her at work. It really annoys me that she has completely ignored me. COMPLETELY. Even after being told about it twice. Then again, it gives me strength that I understand (thanks to these forums) what she is up to. This is a power struggle and I currently hold all the cards and if I stick with NC, will continue to hold them.

Having said all of that I actually don't want to contact her at all. NC means NC. The only thing that is bothering me is that I have already bought the present that she was going to buy and I actually feel quite bad that she is going to buy D stuff and she is never going to get to give her it. But again, I have made it clear TWICE that we are moving on with our lives without her. I'm not sure how much more clear I can be. W is a big girl and obviously understands what I have said. If she chooses to ignore it, there is little I can do.

As for the e-mail, I'm in that same boat. My W still uses her married name on social networking sites. That's the cowardice and fear. A thrive on secrecy, and her situation thrives when the masses do not know. Hence, the e-mail name to conceal her activities.

The more I digest what I was told this week about W not talking to her friends about the A, the more I realise she is keeping it quiet and this is for a reason. This makes me want to contact work and Union to expose as I did before. However I believe this would break the NC?

[chatterbug]

we agree on everything today puppy. Stop by my thread today for me..

Cutter's heart skipped a beat.

[sandi2]

P17....stop it. Just stop all this stuff about thinking of reasons to contact IM to contact "her". There will ALWAYS be something that comes up in life that you'll think you need to let her know about. Draw the line for yourself and say, "This is it!" Doesn't matter what she's left at your house....stop worrying about it. If you are thinking about it all the time...that means it is controling you. You are allowing your thoughts about her to control your life!

This problem with your mom and you being mad at W for not contacting mom, etc. Why on earth would you expect her to do the right thing??? Stop and think about it! Didn't I tell you that she is not the same woman you M and to stop thinking of her in terms like that? You're still doing it. Guess who it's hurting?

You get totally obessed. You just "had" to do some type of action! Couldn't rest until you sent that NC letter......then you have to explain it? Then you get so obsessed with NC! Now you're obsessed about how to get her stuff to her. Just stop it. If she's not concerned about it...pack it up and set it by the curb. You need to move on!

[P17]

This problem with your mom and you being mad at W for not contacting mom, etc. Why on earth would you expect her to do the right thing??? Stop and think about it! Didn't I tell you that she is not the same woman you M and to stop thinking of her in terms like that? You're still doing it. Guess who it's hurting?

It's not that W is a different person - I've accepted that. I just can't imagine anybody being so heartless. That is what has got me.

You get totally obessed. You just "had" to do some type of action! Couldn't rest until you sent that NC letter......

You're absolutely right. I couldn't rest until I sent the NC letter. I couldn't rest because it was eating me up seeing W all the time. She was having her cake and eating it. She was not getting any consequences of what she did. I had two choices - keep seeing her and facilitating contact with D which wasn't working or do something different (is that not what we keep being told) so I did.

then you have to explain it?

With all due respect, what choice did I have? When I arrived home with D on Monday she was already here. She said she didn't understand the letter. I put D into the house and explained it to her on the street. She left. Job done.

Had she turned up AFTER we were already here I can completely understand I had a choice - don't answer the door. I didn't have that choice though.

Then you get so obsessed with NC!

I'm not obsessed by it. I've never done it before I just want to know what is the best way to approach the email. As I get more and more used to this I'll know how to do these things. I'm not going to apologise for asking for help.

I had two issues on the email - the xmas present and the 'list'. List is sorted - she'll get the stuff that is hers.

Xmas present bothers me and I'm almost certain that W put that in there to get a reply from me. I have already bought the present that W will be buying plus I don't want her to buy D anything at all as D needs to get over her and not be constantly reminded that her step-mother isn't here. I WAS torn between letting IM contact her and telling her no more presents, cards or gifts. But other half of me thinks that she has already been told in no uncertain terms that we are moving on - that would mean no contact, presents etc.

HOWEVER, I also have an issue with D's Xmas play that is put on by the school each year. W knows when this is and is likely to be there, maybe with OM. If IM contacted her about presents then she could also say that it's inappropriate for her to be there. Two birds and one stone.

I have decided to not contact her about it and let things happen as they happen. As I said, I've made myself clear to her. If she chooses to ignore it then so be it. The presents will be returned.

Now you're obsessed about how to get her stuff to her.

You are confusing obsessed with asking for advice. I want to know what is the best thing to do given the situation. I got my answer, let the IM handle it. She will be.

Just stop it. If she's not concerned about it...pack it up and set it by the curb.

No, because that's not me. Just because I have decided on NC doesn't mean I become a cold hearted b*tch like her. I thought it would be easier for me if I became that but I don't want to.

She will get the stuff that is hers, in a garbage bag, given to the IM, who can sort out the details.

You need to move on!

I do completely. Which is why I did NC. Bear in mind one thing that while I've been venting off and chatting and becoming 'obsessed' in here, I haven't contacted her at all. If she hadn't come around on Monday that would have been over one week contact free which is a milestone. Had I not had this forum I would have replied to the email already.

In short I will be ignoring the email. Thanks for the advice from everybody. Whatever fallout occurs (if cutterbug is right) I will continue to ignore. If she wants contact then it has to be as per NC letter. Nothing else.

[sandi2]

Okay, maybe it was me who was misunderstanding your posts. It sounded like obsessing.

As long as you can move forward now, and stop thinking about her all the time, then you will start personal growth. That will be good for you and your little girl.

[P17]

Okay, maybe it was me who was misunderstanding your posts. It sounded like obsessing.

I'm sorry it came across that way. It wasn't intentional.

As long as you can move forward now, and stop thinking about her all the time, then you will start personal growth. That will be good for you and your little girl.

I can't stop thinking about W all the time at the moment. What I can say is it's not as quite at the forefront of my mind as it was which is a good thing. I also now notice periods where I am not thinking about her at all which is new.

She is still the last thing I think of at night, the first thing I think of in the morning and I still have the 'dreams' which aren't as nice and sweet as they were before.

I will get there with or without her.

[chatterbug]

P17 you still dream about your wife. I have had 2 dreams about mine and each time she has contacted me next day. Bizzare.

[P17]

Cutterbug,

I had a dream about her on Wednesday morning that she came back and, however difficult it is for a bloke to admit it, was sobbing when I awoke. I had to tell myself that it was 'just a dream and not real' as per what the IC said. It did work once I'd stopped. That has never happened before and hopefully won't again as it was pretty bad!

I had a dream about her last night being back and rejecting me.

No contact yet today. And none on Wednesday. Although the email came in yesterday morning. If she contacted me every time I dreamed about her, it would be nonstop!