Women with HD...is it true or just situational?

[Strong&Alive]

Ssmguy,

Strong&Alive, yes, we are not setting the best example for our kids who know that we are not intimate. But I don't think it's better to show your kids that you solve that problem by getting a divorce! As you probably know, children of divorce have higher divorce rates themselves, as if to go on repeating their family history. But they have seen us get along and try to solve the problem with therapy and going on romantic vacations.

Okay, so your children are just going to end up in sex-starved marriages instead of getting divorced? Because divorce is never a solution? At very best, I would say that "the children" is a neutral factor in all of this, because I just don't see a sex starved marriage example as any "better" than a divorce example. So I'll move on.

Well, our marriage might not be "quite good", but it's not bad. When HD people are single and live by themselves, it is not an automatic conclusion that their lives could never be "quite good" just because they're not having sexual intimacy with anyone. I don't think it's a stretch to apply that to a marriage.

IMO it is one helluva stretch to apply this thinking to a marriage. I would agree that the HD single should be able to be self-sufficient and happy within themselves. But you overlook one essential difference. The HD single is free to enter into a sexually fulfilling relationship - or what he/she hopes will be - and if it isn't sexually fulfilling... they can end it. The man or woman who has locked themselves into a sex starved marriage has handed the key to their sexual freedom to their spouse. Big difference.

Yes, sex is more than a silly activity, at least to me. But it's hard for my wife to see it as anything more than that. That is, she understands that it should mean more, and that it means more to me, but she doesn't see it as more than that for herself. That's what happens when you've had no sexual desire for a long time. Think back to when you were a young kid and you heard about adults having sex. Many kids react with "Ewww, gross!" That's a natural reaction when you don't know or remember what sex means physically and emotionally.

Why should it matter what your wife "thinks" or "believes" about sex. Even if she thinks less of it than you, what makes that thinking superior (or inferior) to you own? This again is a neutral factor. Forget what your wife wants - or says she wants - the two are frequently very different in my experience. That is the wrong question. The question is: "What do I want?" The next question is "Will my wife give it to me in good faith?" The next question is not "Is she giving it to me for reasons that I think she should?" That would be doing her thinking and giving for her. Leave all that to her, and just focus on the first two questions.

Now, this isn't the first time I've posted about my situation on forums, or talked to other people. But it is interesting how EVERYONE assumes that I have not tried the obvious things, like being firm, sitting down for a talk, looking into my wife's eyes and saying we need to change this or we need to divorce. I have done all of these things and more, and that's how I got her into therapy. And so, logically, since the problem hasn't been fixed, I should then have divorced by now. In which case I wouldn't be here posting to this forum. But that is my point, I have CHOSEN not to solve this problem by saying "I'm outa here!" At least not yet.

Well, I can only go on what you've said on this forum. I hope I make no assumptions at all. It could be pointed out that when you said "We need to change this or we need to divorce" you very likely didn't mean what you said (because you didn't divorce). For example, she may have "gone" to therapy, but not actually engaged with the issue at all, because she knew this wasn't ever really going to be a deal-breaker for you.

What kind of therapy was this - joint or single - and for how long? What specifically came out of it? What did your wife say or do as a result?

And I don't think you sufficiently understand that incentive alone, no matter how high the pressure, and sometimes because of the high pressure, is not necessarily going to make a woman want to have sex. I don't want her to be sexual with me just because I threatened divorce. She has made an effort. It is not correct to assume that lack of success on her part means she made no effort. Otherwise you are assuming that effort to be sexual will ALWAYS succeed. And my point is that that is not case.

So you want her to be sexual - but for the reasons you think she should be sexual. Do you see the problem with that thinking? You spend too much time doing your wife's thinking for her, instead of just stating your wants.

What efforts did she make in the bedroom department? And is there any reason why it wasn't good enough for you, why it's been preferable to not have sex for the last 10 years?

We last had intercourse just over a decade ago.

What were the circumstances? How was it left? Were the therapy and the efforts before or after the last time?

As for how I get my needs met, let's just say those aren't details for which I'd get wide support and approval from everyone. My wife tacitly approves by not wanting to know. I suppose you could call it a low-key open marriage. And it's the last thing I would have ever believed I'd enter into when I got married. And no, I'm not happy with it, but it's the best I can manage at the moment.

I'm familiar with the righteous (even if correct) advice about how I've compromised my integrity. As if I didn't know. But my alternatives are divorce or celibacy, and they look worse. And yes, I definitely have lost perspective on what it's like to have a good, full sexual relationship in a marriage, as I realize when I read some of the replies. I see that in contrast to some of the replies, I more freely write about my sexual energy with women in general, as if my wife is just another woman. DanceQueen, for example, reminded me that the discussion pertains to only her relationship with her husband. I don't have that framework because I don't have a sexual relationship with my wife. And my framework has become the norm for me. Sometimes when I hear about a couple who've had a long-term marriage with exclusive sex and intimacy, my reaction is wow, that's amazing. It seems like it would be a really cool, neat, novel, and strange experience to permanently live with someone who willingly meets your sexual needs. Almost like it would be too good to be true or possible. It just seems too simple.

Ssmguy, I apologise for in any way sounding righteous, that is not my intention. I'm simply seeing if there's anything I can say or suggest that may help. I have been in a SSM and I know how depressing and soul-destroying it is. Very much so. It sucks the very life force out of a man (more on that later). It was this board and the things I learnt here, that got me moving in the right direction.

I'm assuming that, having posted here under the name "Ssmguy" you are none too happy about your marriage as it currently stands. Equally, you may think you've tried everything. So did I. Was I ever wrong.

Having said all that, is this agreement with your wife that you get your needs met outside the marriage, an explicit one? Or is it based on an assumption that she would (if you ever explicitly asked her if you could have sex with other women) agree, or just feel too guilty to say no, or reluctantly agree because it was the lesser of two evils? Do you see my point?

Looking at your situation objectively and as a man - I see a man with several children (even the youngest of whom must be over 10 years old), married to a wife whose own needs and wants he no doubt does his best to meet, but who has not had sex with her for 10 years and is clearly unhappy about it - and I ask myself where is this heading?

S&A