I still think what I have always thought of Signore S. He is unattainable. Catching him is a figment of the former Mrs. SP's imagination. He has the status of Rockstar to women everywhere -- rich, extravagant, flattering, and single. But he is Peter Pan, and he won't be caught. He has no interest in eating fruit from the same tree for any length of time. She can chase, and friend on FB, and every other demeaning little act she chooses, he is not asking for her attention. He did not destroy your marriage, she did.
@Puppy Dog Tails: So you can't be friends with a woman who does this, even after you are separated, moving toward divorce. But you COULD be friends with her while she was doing this, while she was still living with you in the marriage?
I'm going to double-down on here. Either you're not reading what I'm writing, or I'm not writing what you're reading.
At no point did I say that I would be friends with her if she was living with me and cheating, which seems to be what's implied in your question.
I said I wouldn't be Friendy to her so long as she continues to maintain contact with Signore and purports that she can't not have him in her life, despite the fact that we are divorcing.
Was that not-un-clear?
Timeline:
D-Day: She's in EA/PA. I don't know this. I ask. Scoff: "Why does it have to be someone else? Can't I just want this for me?"
D+(30): She admits contact, "not EA, definitely not PA."
D+(60): Commence Friendiness -- not friends; DB strategy: "Be at best, do what didn't do before, etc."
D+(80): She admits minor EA, very minor PA, "but not going all the way."
D+(120): She moves out; she admits "going all the way."
D+(170): Signore dumps her -- now that she's in position to "get" him, he flees.
D+(190): Great European Getaway
D+(195): Noises; drops by "to ask something;" proceeds with Sad Lamentations re: Signore; stands up for self; tells Signore he's a scumbag.
D+(220): Batsh*t-Crazy-A-Thon 2; "I'm going to European Capital, I'm going to be a big slut, I'm going to do all the things to any Mr. Anyone I can find that I wouldn't do for you!" Friendiness suspended
D+(240): Makes excuses for Signore; "makes up" with Signore; wants to "make up with you, too."
D+(240)--> Friendiness terminated; if she needs him that much, that's fine -- but that's nothing I need to be associated with, even obliquely
By your timeline, it took you 140 days (80 to 220) after she admitted to having an affair, to suspending friendliness.
Throughout this period, I challenged you on not just the friendliness, but specifically the "rescuing" behavior, where you used your humor and pithiness to diffuse potentially confrontational situations with her.
You defended yourself, saying that you wanted her to be happy.
Now, after she moves out, and you're headed to divorce, and you're livid with her.
There's something around D+220, about this public pronouncement she made about Schmuckatelli #1, that really got under your skin. Something WAY out of proportion to your responses to everything else, at least from where I'm sitting?
My read: she gave signore a second chance, but where's the second chance for SP after x years of marriage and two kids?
I'm guessing that's where the rancor is coming from.
Of course, it's really apples and oranges. A fantasy affair relationship like that isn't a really gut-level meaningful relationahip. No matter how much she thinks she has invested in it, IMHO on some level she realizes this; it's much easier to give someone another chance or multiple chances when they *don't* matter deeply to you, when they haven't staked a claim on that much of your emotional real estate.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
My read: she gave signore a second chance, but where's the second chance for SP after x years of marriage and two kids?
I'm guessing that's where the rancor is coming from.
Regardless of where the rancor is, the fact remains that she did give her partner in adultry a second chance...and her husband of 18 years and the father of her children gets no second chance. That's painful, and SP's angst is quite understandable to me.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
@PDT -- you're still not quite latching onto it. Friendiness is NOT friendship. It is not being open to story-telling. It is not sharing of intimate life details. It is not co-sleeping. It is appearing happy; it is pitching-in around the house when pitching-in is needed; it is saying "Good Morning" or "how was work?"; it is going about the daily GAL, 180, job, etc., without calling attention to one's self. It is, in short, putting the best face forward. It is NOT "f*ck you b*tch" and it is NOT "I hate you" and it is NOT "I wish you were dead."
Yes, I rescued; that was as much for me as for her, to prove to myself that I was everything she said I wasn't.
I'm livid because, after the A is over, she wants me to join into her life -- just like her lover. In other words, it isn't enough to DIVORCE me, she wants to ASSIGN me to the category of "men I have f*cked but still get coffee with." Well, that's just not on. I'm happy to be the father of her children; but I'm not going to be one of her "swell Ex's."
I hardly think that's out of proportion. If Mrs. PDT went back to her old ways -- always a possibility, right? -- would you be "the same" angry you were, or would you be "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" angry?
What irritates me the most, frankly, isn't even that she would have the cojones to ask this of someone -- it's that she renders it a character flaw in me that I find it insulting.
My read: she gave signore a second chance, but where's the second chance for SP after x years of marriage and two kids?
I'm guessing that's where the rancor is coming from.
Regardless of where the rancor is, the fact remains that she did give her partner in adultry a second chance...and her husband of 18 years and the father of her children gets no second chance. That's painful, and SP's angst is quite understandable to me.
Therein lies part of the answer to this issue, if any answer is to be had and taken advantage of.
Partner in adultery didn't pursue her, in fact quite the opposite and on top of that, he let her go, she's pursuing him.
Why?
Because he has a 12" johnson rod?
Maybe.
In the eyes of Mrs.SP, does he have higher perceived value than SP?
Yup, probably.
In the eys of Mrs.SP, does she have higher perceived value than SP?
Yup, probably.
Did SP pursue her? Yup
Follow the value, pursue the unattainable.
She pursues Signore, he projects his value as being too high and makes himself unavailable, she's attracted to that value, he's too good for her and he leaves her to get something better.
Doesn't that sound familiar to the situation.
She projects her value as being too high for SP and makes herself unavailable, SP is attracted to her because she has alot of value in his eyes, she's too good for him (as per her opinion) and she leaves him to get something better.
What does SP do? He dates, all of a sudden his value goes up. No one noticed that she had a $hit when she discovered that SP traded up? Follow the value. SP says fine, I'm tired of chasing you, I have value, I don't have to prove it to you, you're a waste of my time and my love and she can't have that, throws off the balance in her mind. The way things were going, they were fine when she was the one with perceived high value. SP gets involved with another woman, Mrs.SP's value drops, all of a sudden she has an issue with things - how could SP do this to our marriage and I'm not going to MC if you're still seeing her.
She's all about the value.
Now something throws me off for a second, SP did you stop seeing that woman you were dating and start pursuing your wife again, is this why the momentum appears to have shifted back to her?
All SP can do at this point is detach. No longer pursuing, no longer replying to emails unless they're of an emergency, no more taking crap from her, no more tolerating her crap behavior, continue being a great person, a great father and continue moving on with your life and no longer worrying about wasting his time or his love on her, invest it into someone else that matters.
And you thought value came into play when shopping for groceries and automobiles ;-)
And remember, too, there's a lot of other stuff going on. There was the Batsh*t-Crazy-A-Thon in which she declared that SHE had decided that henceforth the "only" reason for going to see Fab MC#2 was to reconcile (just after getting dumped by Signore) but that SHE would under no circumstances discuss the A at any point -- "that is a closed subject!" -- and that SHE would under no circumstances allow me access to her e-mail or cell phone -- "I am not a child! That is a completely disrespectful and unacceptable suggestion!" -- and that we would start this process "RIGHT HERE AND NOW OR NEVER!!"..... All because SHE decided that SHE was the one in charge.
And when I expressed some hesitation, SHE declared "That's It Then! You obviously have no interest! Your suspicion of me speaks volumes, and I won't stand for it!"
And that, of course, led to her Great European Getaway and her declaration of intent to go down on the first gent she met.
So it's not as if this one thing exists in isolation.
