I did have a nice evening out. I still struggle with missing my H... would still rather be with him. But, I am learning and growing and finding new things to do for me, and that is always good. Glad to hear you have have been having fun too!
Ok so H and I had a R talk. I know that is supposed to be off limits in pure DB form at this point. But, I decided to go ahead with it for a few reasons, 1. H initiated 2. H is showing some (maybe small) but some signs of fog lifting? *feel free to tell me if I am being too hopeful* 3. my gut seemed to tell me the timing seemed right because I am in a strong place... not breaking down, freaking out etc.
So... H is now saying he is realizing there is a very real possibility he has made the biggest mistake of his life with OW but is also still confused and struggling. H wanted to explain to me what was going on in his thinking throughout the A. H wanted to know my opinion, both about OW, their R and whether some of his thinking has been deluded. I was honest and, for the most part, kept my cool. I only got emotional once and that was showing anger about OW. H actually admits he has enjoyed seeing the "fight" in me come out, so I don't think that was a bad thing. H seems to be hearing what I am saying, at least to some extent and has been admitting more and more negatives about OW and their R. I have remained clear on my stand for the M and my boundaries. But, I also told him I won't wait forever for him to figure this all out, and realistically there is a lot for me to forgive so there are no guarantees. However, I remain clear in my position that we can work on all that once OW is completely out of the picture. It was, overall, a positive, calm conversation. We hugged. H has been attentive and more engaged with me and kids since.
Am I being naive and too hopeful... or are we making some progress?
Any time a wayward spouse goes from a certainty about the course of their affair ("I have found my soulmate!") to expressing doubt and confusion, I think it's progress.
And he also knows your boundaries haven't moved, and -- even more importantly -- that you won't wait forever.
I think that's all good.
I do think you need to be careful that he doesn't now take a "Oh good! She seemed to be okay with that talk!" and start to treat you like a gay friend with whom he can confide his fears and insecurities about his marriage and his affair partner. I think a good boundary to draw would have been, at the end of the conversation (maybe right after the hug), to look him in the eye and say "Thank you for being honest with me about what you're feeling. Now . . . just so that we're clear . . . it makes me feel very disrespected when you talk to me about your girlfriend. The only 'next' conversation I'm willing to have with you about this is when you want to discuss with me that you've ended it with her."
Do you think he's sincere about his "deluded" question? Would he be willing to read something like "NOT Just Friends" (by Glass) or some other book that explains the chemical addiction of affairs, so that he could see that he really IS deluded about his feelings toward you so long as he is in contact with this OW?
Thanks for the clarification Puppy... knew I could count on you. I am not sure how serious he is about the "deluded" question. I have looked at that book in the book store before. I think it will be good for me to read, and I can always suggest it.
The sense I get is that he intellecutally is realizing the possibility of this "delusion" and even the "addictive" nature of A r's. We also discussed that. But, of course he still has "feelings" for her and "that just doesn't go away".
I am going to give some space now after that talk, cont. GALing, 180's etc. and maybe pick up that book and see where that goes.
The sense I get is that he intellecutally is realizing the possibility of this "delusion" and even the "addictive" nature of A r's. We also discussed that. But, of course he still has "feelings" for her and "that just doesn't go away".
I am going to give some space now after that talk, cont. GALing, 180's etc. and maybe pick up that book and see where that goes.
Then that might make it an IDEAL situation for him to learn more about the chemically-addictive nature of affairs.
at this point, the A is still a big secret due to the fear of H losing his job, which really would cause us extreme financial distress... as in almost immediate crisis.
H has a job in which it is quite likely he would lose it should this be exposed.
Yet...there really are no consequences yet for H or OW. Yes, H is making some small signs of progress as in my above posts. This is quite new and fragile, and I don't want to do anything to set that back. But... because H is still not willing to fully commit to the M and is still struggling and confused about feelings for OW, I know they are still in contact. She continues to do PT work where my H works, and my H indirectly supervises this. There are some ethical issues there as well.
Do I put all this on the back burner longer and focus on my own DBing and the baby steps of progress with H and M? Or, is this the time to do that, but also begin to consider exposure? I really don't know, I feel torn. And, I am afraid of the financial picture if H lost job. I would appreciate thoughts on this...
This is a very tough call. If it were me, and there were either no children involved, or the children wouldn't be greatly affected by any financial fallout (say I had my own, well-paying job), then I would probably expose to the employer.
If the family -- including the kids -- WOULD be affected (I'm talking to the point of needs not being met, not "Christmas will have to be a little smaller this year, kids"), then I probably wouldn't expose unless the affair itself was also threatening my family's finances (as in $$$ disappearing from accounts, or joint debt being racked up).
There's also the option of THREATENING to expose @ work, even tho you may not be willing to follow thru on it. But I generally don't like to bluff something unless I'm willing to do it.
From where I sit, this one's 50/50, but as my "tiebreaker" I would use how effectively you are DBing. You're doing VERY well at this, your husband seems to be responsive to it, so I would probably hold off the exposure at the workplace.
Is there anyone else to whom it would make sense to expose the affair, other than the employer, that might bring some pressure to bear? What do your two older children know?
I am now leaning more and more to the holding off as well. H talked with me this a.m. about how he finds himself "drifting away emotionally" more and more with OW. Although they are still in contact, he seems to be disengaging. He also made some comments about seeing the changes I am making for myself and how that gives him hope. (What?.... GALing really WORKS? go figure! ;))
So... the DBing is definitely working. This, I believe, is what is most important at this point.
The only other area where I think exposure could bring some pressure to bear would be family. I know my H is VERY afraid of my family finding out, as they are quite conservative and traditional, and he knows they will be hurt and disappointed. But, I am going to hold off there as well for the time being. My sister knows we are struggling, but doesn't know all the details and has been a good support to me. My H's sister knows everything, and H knows she knows but there is no pressure there.
Our oldest S knows a little more than the other two. None know of the affair but oldest S asked me, "are you afraid of infidelity if you and dad separate?" To which I honestly answered "yes" and suggested he discuss further with his dad why that may be. H has said he knows he will need to tell the kids the full truth at some point but is not ready to yet.
H still remains uncertain about M but these are positive signs and I think bringing too much pressure at this point would push away again...
