There exists only one fact, one inescapable, irremediable, unalterable fact: "Mrs. SP" no longer exists. The person who used to inhabit that name -- gone. The woman that took her place can live or die and it doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me, because I don't know that person. She's a stranger who happens to have a relationship with my children. It's all back to the Latin root of "divorce:" divertere, to turn aside.
Mrs. SP turned aside. And now, to borrow a phrase, "I do" too.
You sound as stout as a brick outhouse Smiley! Good for you!
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
@antlers: You sound as stout as a brick outhouse Smiley!
Well thanks for that vote of confidence, @antlers.
To be honest, I largely owe it to Miss Someone, who told me how she came to cope with her own Walkaway -- she just decided that, in the interest of self-preservation and energy-conservation, she would deal with him the same way she'd deal with the Insane: "He just can't help it."
I'm gonna be presumptuous in assuming you can forgive me challenging you a little. You do seem really defensive when you get less than "vote of confidence" feedback. I get it but really, there's not really any shame in being unable to "never speak" to someone again. I was just telling my 9 year old a story about someone saying that to me and he said "that sounds like something a kid would say, not a grown up." From the mouths of babes.
As I see it, self-absorbed, career obsessed, family destroying WAW was told repeatedly and shown by YOU to expect "friendy," understanding, supportive behavior. She could lean on you, express herself with you, share her struggle (it's called give an inch take a mile, I have my own narcissist so I know this well). So, now, SP, you come here ranting and raving, "the nerve!" And you get all this atta boy BS when you really are in many ways responsible for the ridiculous expectations.
This could and should be rectified with a clear articulation of game change. You aren't responsible for her being an ass, but you cosigned a good while back and are now relishing in your flabergastedness. It gets you whistles and macho reinforcement here but IRL, it just reinforces this BS of you as innocent bystander and she as evil ogre.
I know in my sitch, with H supporting me financially, he pulls the card of expecting me to accommodate his work. I'm not offended by it, I do what works for me. I see his point of view. If I don't go back every time to "well you left MF, now deal with it," I usually find my way.
To me, this is pretty simple. You want more $ and more time with the kids? Maybe if it is too much for her, she'll have to choose.
Lest I waste time extrapolating, are you getting my drift here?
Just wanted to point out, lest there be a misunderstanding, that my 'votes of confidence' and 'attaboys' directed toward Smiley are based upon his realization of and acceptance of "She's gone, Jack!", and his resolve in moving on with his life without her...with a strong attitude, that he needs and has, to to go forward. He seems strong and resolute, and he deserves the 'votes of confidence' and 'attaboys' that I've given him for THAT!
I am more realistic than to think he is simply an innocent bystander (few of us are...I'm sure not) and she is the evil ogre (many of us have been, myself included).
Just wanted to clear that up regarding my posts to him. It's possible that you misunderstood me AAK, and it's possible that you weren't even referring to my posts to SP...if so, then I apologize. It's also possible that I misunderstood you too AAK...if so, then I apologize.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
You do seem really defensive when you get less than "vote of confidence" feedback.
If you followed the posts, you'll see that that was a bit of irony (cf, @Lotus).
self-absorbed, career obsessed, family destroying WAW was told repeatedly and shown by YOU to expect "friendy," understanding, supportive behavior...So, now, SP, you come here ranting and raving, "the nerve!"
Ah, my friend, but you're overlooking the decisive element here -- yes, I did all that; yes, I meant all that. But when she WENT BACK to the man she cheated on me with and left me and the children for, and demanded not only that I ACCEPT that two-fold slap-in-the-face but ACCEPT it and sustain Friendiness -- indeed, not only GOING BACK to him, but MAKING EXCUSES FOR HIM to her friends who also couldn't believe she was doing so -- then the offer of Friendiness became null-and-void, because Friendiness is not synonymous with Doormatness.
I mean, here she is made utterly miserable by this character whom she's only been involved with (she says) for 6 months or so, and he not only gets a Second Chance, he gets it without asking -- she just goes and offers it up! "I decided I was too hard on him," she wrote me, if you can credit that! But her husband of 18 years? Father of her children? The very idea of a second chance, she says, is ludicrous.
Look, I have absolutely no problem with her Mr. Someone, whom she met months after moving out on her own and with the presumption that the only thing standing between Us and Divorced Independence was a judge's gavel. Good on her, and bravo for him if he got her to do all the things she wouldn't do for me.
But The Other is beyond the pale -- fool me once, etc., right?
This could and should be rectified with a clear articulation of game change. You aren't responsible for her being an ass, but you cosigned a good while back and are now relishing in your flabergastedness. It gets you whistles and macho reinforcement here but IRL, it just reinforces this BS of you as innocent bystander and she as evil ogre.
Same as above, re: irony and re: difference between Friendiness and Doormatness.
I know in my sitch, with H supporting me financially, he pulls the card of expecting me to accommodate his work. I'm not offended by it, I do what works for me. I see his point of view. If I don't go back every time to "well you left MF, now deal with it," I usually find my way.
I have always accommodated her work; follow the bouncing ball of my objection:
* You, SP, will take second chair professionally for the sake of the children; * I am leaving you SP; * I do not want to pay you alimony, SP, because you did not maximize yourself professionally; you are a wussy Not-Man for taking my money, and I hate you for it and will bring it up as often as possible to put you down -- indeed, I will be so single-mindedly obsessed with the issue of money that I will go with you to marriage counseling after D-Day but only (I will tell my friends, but not you) to make you give up your right to alimony by showing you that I "tried" to work it out; * Great News, WAW! I have an opportunity to maximize myself professionally, relieving you of all alimony obligations, but I must move to do it. * Oh my god, you are an a**hole, SP, for even entertaining the idea of maximizing yourself professionally because you will be abandoning the children, but do whatever your selfish a**hole self wants to do -- your children will simply be raised by an au pair, but I guess that's what you want since (as she wrote over the weekend) "YOU have always been the only thing you care about."
To borrow a phrase @alive, "are you getting my drift here?"
To me, this is pretty simple. You want more $ and more time with the kids? Maybe if it is too much for her, she'll have to choose.
To me as well. But, as of the last couple days, she still not only EXPECTS, but DEMANDS, that I do the choosing -- and that I choose both NO alimony and MORE child care responsibilities. Heads she wins; tails I lose.
So this is not a case of being hoist by my own Friendiness petard; it's a case of drawing a boundary -- I won't be friends with a woman who by her own admission cannot live her life if it doesn't include the man she betrayed me with and whose sense of a fair outcome is that she gets what she wants, and I voluntarily give up what little the law entitles me to.
I actually think the support is great and I too am thrilled he's at "She's gone, Jack!"
In addition, I think that functioning in the precarious reality of ex-ness is so challenging and the more we can focus on ourselves, the better (to be succinct about it).
IMO (which means jack to other since its just mine, lol!) it is very easy to confuse the marriage problems prior to the bomb, one spouse leaving to what happens AFTER that.
All in all during our 10 year marriage my H was a good guy. We had tons in common and a ton of fun together. He always treated me well... brought me flowers once a week for ten years, was very sweet and romantic and generally just a "good dude". Lots of things happened to us in a very short time (illness, death, pay cuts) and he sort of fell apart and shut down but never let me know he was falling apart as he kept being the same "good dude" he always was.
Now I will stand up in Tiger Stadium in front of 100K plus people and openly admit every single mistake I made in the marriage. Because lets face it, we all made mistakes in our marriage that hurt the union even if we didn't mean to. We all had/have communication issues or past baggage to deal with that has nothing to do with our spouses.
BUT (and this is a big but) I think what makes things so terribly difficult is how cruel, underhanded and entitled the WAS becomes after the bomb. I mean, if you want out then make your choice but the cruelty is not necessary. And some of us have dealt with different levels of cruelty be it verbal, emotional, physical or any other terrible thing.
The confusion (I suppose on both ends) is overwhelming. One day my H is sending me flowers TWICE in a day and writing me a love letter telling me things that any woman would swoon from after 10 years of marriage and three days later he is telling me that I am ugly, not good enough, I don't look like I did when I was 24 (newsflash pal, neither do you) and other very mean things.
I know in the early stages of the bomb its hard to process all of this but after one, two or three years of it eventually you just have to say "shut the f*ck up". I am NOT ugly, I AM good enough and I look just fine at age 34 and if you don't think so then poo on you.
The WAS wants out then GET OUT but the prolonged meanness I will never understand. My H and I are legally separated, most of our administrative business is done and since I have family coming in from out of town this week for T-day we both agreed we will finish up the following week. All very calm and civil and things are going smoothly as far as getting things done. We had a few e-mail exchanges this morning about business matters (again, all calm and civil and polite) and despite being legally separated and me not giving him the time of day unless I have to he is still telling me "I can't be married anymore". Yes, all clear, 10-4 over and out. I have been hearing "I can't be married anymore" in EVERY exchange we have had, be it via the written word or verbal for 21 months. Frankly it gets old.
Maybe I am just different but some WAS are far more mean and cruel than other ones. And when you are on the receiving end of being told how stupid, ugly, worthless, not good enough for two years eventually you sort of snap inside and just say "leave me the f*uck alone if I am so repugnant to you". Then in the next breath he is wanting to come over to bring me MY house keys instead of just dropping them in the mail as I requested.
I am tired of being jerked around and I *thought* this legal separation agreement would end the jerking. But for now I have to deal with him as we take care of administrative stuff so I tolerate and ignore. It doesn't mean though that these continued jabs, cruelty and blame don't hurt because IMO they are wholly unnecessary. I just smile and act fabulous and on the rare occasion I do have to see him strut my stuff like I am a Victoria's Secret model but still... cruelty takes a toll and no matter how many boundaries you set and are honored jabs still do hurt. And what is the point of adding more hurt? I will never understand it. Ever.
And after all that he ends the messages with "have a good day!" like nothing was said. I sometimes wonder if I am the crazy one. I mean I know I am part crazy (I am from the South after all but I know I can't be *that* crazy. Right?
but I know I can't be *that* crazy. Right?