Being me thanks for your reply, yes I got the same vibes as you have, and yes I also made it clear to ex that it is 100% up to son if he decides to go to their home, it was ex who caused all this upheaval in his and sons relationship, one thing I wont be doing is telling son he should be going down there. I also told ex that I will not be entering into any arguments with him about this situation, son may or may not decide to go, that is sons choice, just like it was ex's choice to walk away and dis-own son. I have discussed it with son today and got his views on it, he is still dead against having any form of contact with ex's wifey, he said he might consider going down if she was out of the way, and not in a negative form or view I asked would he be comfortable down there knowing that although she as supposedly said she would keep out of the way for a couple of hours, that she would come back, back to the same old story of she had forgotten something or after a couple of times it being just son and dad that they would have to include her. its just deja vu really. like you say I have noticed how still ex can call me and speak to me nicely when he is wanting something in return, I have already given him something and had no thanks for it, I put my head on the block to get him and son talking again, if that isnt enough then tough. I wont be getting involved it is completely up to son. regards