Yep, I know how that goes. I had an auto accident about 2 months ago and W didn't even ask if I was OK. Everyone else who found out I had been in an accident was concerned. Go figure.
It's interesting that you mention about the cell phone minutes. I have never been big on phone conversations so pre-sitch, I maybe used 50 of my 450 minutes each month. I got my recent phone bill and was like WTH!! Then when I look closer, I had gone over by about 100 minutes.
I hope your hernia surgery is healing well. I have a hernia too and am afraid that I am going to have to get surgery at some point.
I'm no longer in the house and what I really miss is that end of day conversation. Even the strained ones the last few months. I'm burning up my cell phone minutes calling different people to fill the void.
This has to be tough, I am glad that you have a support network to turn to, that helps a lot. I have no close friends locally but I have good friend on the other side of the country who is going through his own breakup so we have been burning up the minutes.
My W is still here but emotionally checked out right now. the thing I miss most is coming home to her and our dogs after a hard day and knowing that it would make me more relaxed. Now I come home and spend my time looking for rays of hope that she is checking back in. The opposite of GAL....that has to change
Hernias don't heal on their own. You are going to have to bite the bullet at some point.
You are still in the house. I am out and lately I'm wondering if leaving was the right move. I mean, she asked me to repeatedly and finally I got to the point where I wanted to show her it wasn't me making her unhappy.
But by law I didn't have to go. Of course, if I didn't move out, I'm not sure I would have started going to a new church that offers Marriage Rebuilders classes. I've learned so much about how I contributed to her emotional downfall and the building of the wall between us that I feel confident that it would be a much better marriage between us if she lets me back in her heart.
It is easier to GAL when you move out because YOU HAVE TO. But I'm always wondering how she's supposed to notice since I'm not there. But then I remember being unavailable is part of the allure. That as the single life marches on, she may decide it's not all that it's cracked up to be and start thinking of me.
I've already found -- snooping, I know a bad thing -- evidence that she is not exactly living La Vida Loca without me.
Another HUGE difference between you and I is that I live in the hometown I grew up in and have been at my job for 13 years. So I have a network of friends that have been able to help on occasion. Not always though, most of the friends my age are married so I've spent some time out with 20 somethings, which is fun, but there's generational issues.
If I was still in the house, what would I be doing? Well, through the Rebuilders class I'm focusing on three things.
1) Become a world-class listener. Listen, validate, don't fix things.
2) Learn to underreact. I'm mostly trying this with my daughters, although W has brought up divorce or having "to go to an appointment" in a couple of phone calls and I brushed it off because I think she was looking for or expecting a reaction.
3) Don't give advice unless it is asked for. I guess that's part of not fixing things. But I've been one of those people who are too smart -- or at least I thought too smart -- for their own good. If people want me to help fix something, they just have to ask -- it doesn't encourage conversation if I'm always butting in.
Me: 47, Ds 17-13, D final 6-11 http://tinyurl.com/yk4e2tz http://tiny.cc/thread2 http://tinyurl.com/ydtphqu http://tinyurl.com/thread4 http://tinyurl.com/3sm78k6 http://tinyurl.com/thread6
W and I watched an interesting movie last night. There were three separate scenes with people confessing cheating on there partners and how much regret they had over it! In one scene, an old man confesses on his deathbed and starts screaming "oh the regret!".
So I am sitting there like wow, I hope this is sending W a message about the usual outcome of cheating. On the other hand it wad really stressful for me, I was suprised that I didn't crush the wine glass in my hand (I was gripping it pretty hard). It was amazing that W could sit through it with me. I had to linger in the bathroom before bed just to calm myself down.
W did say goodnight and rubbed my arm a bit when going to bed which is not something she does very often these days.
Since depression is often misread as "laxiness", the biggest 180 you can do is simply show yourself to be active whenever you are around her. Be your best when in her presence........ but my point is that your W is probably use to seeing you in more inactive things such as being on the computer (which is fine if you are on DB board...lol)
I agree 100% on laxiness part, this is probably the biggest 180 that I need to do. I was depressed and in need of therapy PRIOR to the bomb and the bomb and the A has really knocked me in deep, so deep, I sometimes wonder if it is possible to be happy again. I have done a lot of thinking over the past few days and I still don't know where she is with OM right now but all I can do is try spend time making myself as good as I possibly can. In some ways, I can see that she still thinks of me as this procrastinating indecisive guy. I mentioned to her that I am going to finish this lingering home remodeling project and start to get back into guitar lessons and she looks at me with this look in her eye that says "yeah right". Maybe you are right, getting off of the couch and going on these things is the way to go. I had an appt. with a personal trainer at the gym yesterday and they are setting me up with some realistic goals for weight loss and strength training. This is a goal I have wanted for me for a long time and is another thing that she said I always talk about and never follow through on.
It's funny you mention about the DB forum. I sometimes sit in the living room posting using my phone, maybe this makes me look "mysterious" to her! Couldn't hurt if she thinks I am texting OW I guess.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
It is important that you discipline yourself to GAL. Yes, I said discipline...b/c if you still struggle with signs of depression, then more than likely, you don't want to get a life b/c you won't feel like it, but it is so important to do it.
This is true, I don't feel like GAL right now. I am so depressed and sleep deprived that I must look like crap. It is hard to want to go out when you are not feeling your best. I was actually thinking another 180 for me might be to do some volunteer work on the weekends. I have always been a little on the selfish side and I would be happier with me if that weren't the case. Maybe volunteering will allow me to help others out while getting the benefit of helping vault me out of my funk. I am starting to see a lot of the personal growth opportunities that come along with the sitch that I am in.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Showing a sunny personality (or at least your best side) when you are within see & hearing distance of her is very important.
Doing OK with this and the not moping, crying, etc. I think that is the only DB thing that I have done right so far!
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Your biggest test will be fear. You will be afraid to trust these techniques b/c they are a 180 for you, and doesn't feel normal. But you must trust it. What were doing wasn't working. That is why you are here.
The most attractive man to any woman is one who is very confident in himself. It brings out the female in her. So, even if you have to fake it till you make it.....so be it.
I do harbor a lot of fear right now. I am afraid of losing my W, afraid of being alone, and afraid of the loss of financial security. It will be a big confidence boost for me if I can get over these fears and just learn to thrive whether she decides to leave or not. I read something in someone else's post the other day that describes how I feel to a T. I feel like a "broken man" right now.
Had a good therapist appt. the other day, she is starting to go tough love on me by forcing our discussions to be about the changes that I need to start working on and not on the M problem. She told me that I need to "divest" a little from the R and start moving forward. I had to smile thinking about DBing because I realized that divest = detach. So much of what my therapist said sounded like DB!
W has been really nice lately with lots of little physical gestures (touching, hugging etc.). She went to one of her courses the other night and even texted me throuout the night to show me what she was doing. She actually brought me a romantic card when she came home and it was signed "love WAS". It almost felt like we had turned a major corner except that there still has been no additional discussion of the A or OM.
I am trying hard this week to not analyze her actions and not worry about the outcome. Her recent kindness is very perplexing indeed though. I keep wondering if it is possible that confronting an A can stop it in it's tracks or did it just knock things off balance for a bit.
It is what it is and I can't control it, just have to focus on losing the weight I recently gained back!
I need some expert analysis and possibly a reality check on my sitch.
The other night, W went to another personal interest course which I know she was at because she texted me pictures. However, she came home VERY late so there were a couple of hours that were unaccounted for. I backslid BIGTIME and called her and asked her if she was planning on coming home tonight (I think I was really frustrated because of the seemingly positive turns in the R). She was on the way home at that point and said of course I am. I was really annoyed and let her know how I felt about her being out so late, especially with everything that has gone on over the past few months. She told me that we had talked recently (the A confrontation) and that I don't have to worry about her seeing him anymore and that she felt we were moving in the right direction. She even mentioned the fact that I had brought up MC.
She is continuing to be nice and affectionate with me, still no ILY's though. She bought more home decor this weekend (for those new to my sitch, W was planning on S a month ago)and picked out some new paint colors for some house painting projects she wants us to do over the holidays. We spent the entire afternoon yesterday looking at decor, paints, wallpaper. etc.) There is still no talk of R, no transparency plan, no formal talk of reconciliation, no remorse for A.
I see so much advice on this forum that says the LBS should not bring up R discussions but I really don't know how to proceed on this one. Should I initiate some discussion on the R and get into some actual discussions on planning MC sessions? Should I leave R talk alone for now and just see where this is heading. My W is a conflict avoider and has never been one to want to have the tough discussions during our R. If what I am seeing is progress, baby steps, etc., I don't want to jeopardize this by pushing things too fast. On the other hand, I feel that if we sweep this under the rug, it will probably come back to bite us worse in the future. Of course, there is also the possibility that she is cake eating.
I am still trying to focus on improving myself and am making some good progress. I just feel that I am at a critical point with the R and I appreciate the insight of anyone who is willing to help out.
It seems that your W is making some very positive steps, IMHO. But this particular time is fragile for her as well. That is why you must discipline yourself to NOT call her when she is late. It makes you look so clingy and I'm sure your emotions are showing. It causes you to lose ground that was gained. From what you've posted, I think it sounds good. I do not think you should bring up the R talk. Continue to act "as if" everything will be okay, but it is baby-steps all along the way. If she brings up anything about the R, then just listen to her. Unless she asks you a question......just listen to what she has to say. That is important. Remember, don't expect too much too quickly.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I have not been around much lately as I felt I needed some time away from reading and posting so much.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
It seems that your W is making some very positive steps, IMHO. But this particular time is fragile for her as well. That is why you must discipline yourself to NOT call her when she is late. It makes you look so clingy and I'm sure your emotions are showing.
I really hope that she is making positive steps but as you mentioned, I am trying to tone back my expectations right now. I know that most A won't be easy to break, especially if there is an emotional attachment. Since her A most likely followed the EA to PA path, I am sure that she is struggling if she is really trying to break it off and start focusing on home things again. I definitely sense the fragility of things right now which is why I am trying extra hard to be careful how I proceed after my backslide the other night.
I think the reason I had such a hard time the other night is because when she was so transparent re: her activities during the one night out (even bringing the card home), it was such shockingly different behavior for her that I felt like maybe something really good was afoot. However, I also began to sense that the class that was two nights later was going to be different (which of course it was). I think this is a good example of how LBS can really set themselves up if they don't stay patient and keep expectations in check. I do feel certain that she did see him that night but don't have confirmation.
Originally Posted By: sandi2
From what you've posted, I think it sounds good. I do not think you should bring up the R talk. Continue to act "as if" everything will be okay, but it is baby-steps all along the way.
I really do hope things are moving in a good direction so I will keep trying to maintain the PMA and looking for the baby steps. W went out of the country on a vacation with a friend last week which is a first for her during our relationship. She made a big deal about getting her phone set up to have international calling ability so she could call me, however, she only called me to tell me she had arrived there and to tell me she was at the airport when on the way back. She really had no interest in what I was doing while she was away although she was very surprised when I was wide awake at 2:30 in the morning when she called. She mentioned it quite a few times after she got back too but I never offered an explanation as to why (I had been up on the phone with a friend).
I think what was most interesting to me was that while she was away, I didn't miss her that much and it kinda felt good to spend some time getting back to thinking about and being me. I went out and socialized a bit which gave my confidence a boost. I was talking with a woman who is an acquaintance and I actually felt that she made some flirtatious gestures towards me and she actually asked a lot of questions about me and my life. After two years of feeling like no one cared about my life, this felt really good and I can't describe what it did for my confidence. I can see how after a long time of feeling empty, my WAW could succumb to an A. This made me realize that I am in a really vulnerable state right now and that I need to remain strong b/c I still do want my marriage to work out.
While she was away, I spent a lot of time thinking about things that I need to improve and actually setting some goals to do this. I also spent some time in the self-help section at the bookstore as well. I realized that I had lost me in the M and that I had become co-dependent. These are things I am now resolved to change. I finished reading Learned Optimism while she was away and I have to say that is a great book for helping with realizing that a person can train themselves to not be so self defeating and negative. I also, for the first time since the bomb, came to grips with the fact that I could move on to a rewarding life even if W chooses not to spend it with me. I used the time away from her to "practice" being alone and was surprised how much my PMA increased while she was gone. My friend actually commented that he thought my attitude had really changed in the time that she was away.
I still feel this way to a large extent but after W came back, I started noticing a slight decrease in PMA and a feeling that her lack of interest in me was draining me a bit. I feel like what happened while she was away was my first glimmer of real detachment I still want my W and our M but I don't want the person that she is right now. I deserve better and I am willing to give her a better me if she wants to keep trying but I have to see efforts on her part at some point. I am a very patient person so hopefully I can hold on long enough for her to come around. At least I now know that if she doesn't come around in the end, I can find the strength to forge ahead and improve my life.
As Coach would say, I am already dead
I am struggling a little with feeling resentful right now and my therapist and friend have both pointed this out to me. Maybe it is this feeling that prompted me to reflect more on what I want and where I want to be in life, IDK. I really just have to try to remain strong and patient and learn how to lead us out of this situation.
I thought that Coach's post today in Bow's thread was great and I think it applies in my sitch. I am going to continue to keep the pressure to be my W off of her and just keep trying to connect with her where I can while I continue to focus on me. Are there any other things I can do right now to improve our chances of working towards a R. I don't plan to have any R talk but I do know that for us to move forward, at some point, I will need to see genuine remorse from her and a willingness to try a period of transparency. What is a reasonable expectation for how long one should wait on this? Should I communicate this to her at some point in the future so that she knows my conditions and that the A can't be swept under the rug?
I am going to backslide here a bit here towards being too analytical. My W has not worn her engagement ring since the bomb, however, she has kept the wedding band on. One thing she does that really bugs me is to wear a big, obscuring fashion ring up against it. I keep wondering if she does this to hide it from herself, from OM, from other potential OP or if it really means nothing. I noticed that after I called her upset when she was out late a couple of weeks ago, for the next three days she wore only her band, and one night, even her engagement ring. However, when she went back to work on Monday, it was back to the same. Does this mean anything? It is something that has really been bugging me.
What is a reasonable expectation for how long one should wait on this? Should I communicate this to her at some point in the future so that she knows my conditions and that the A can't be swept under the rug?
I believe everyone has to determine that for themselves. You don't need to tell her the deadline b/c she will wait right up to the final hour before making a move (if she does make a move)in the direction you are wanting. However, you can have a date in your mind, and as far as relating this to her, when communicating say, "I don't how long I will be able to continue in a MR where things are swept under the rug". "I do not believe in an open M and would not be able to continue in a MR where there was a third person". "I will not be able to to stay in a M where there is not openess and truth." Something to that effect. I'm not the world's best at this. Just make sure you are prepared for an answer to any question she may pop off at you.
If she looks the other way and doesn't respond to any of those statements, then that's bad!
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I still want my W and our M but I don't want the person that she is right now. I deserve better and I am willing to give her a better me if she wants to keep trying but I have to see efforts on her part at some point. I am a very patient person so hopefully I can hold on long enough for her to come around. At least I now know that if she doesn't come around in the end, I can find the strength to forge ahead and improve my life.