Longtime coming...

[Awoken]

It sounds like you are really doing well. I think sometimes it's easy for us to stay in denial about a problem, but you've realized the problem and are becoming proactive. I do think you should not rush into anything, and seek the guidance of alanon and your lawyer. I think this is such a serious problem, that it is wise to seek counsel and form a plan.

Thank you again, Karen. I'm still quite shocked at the idea that this has been right in front of me for years without me taking action. Everything SEEMED ok, and like it was working. I'm really trying to understand now how this has been effecting me and my kids as well as W. I don't think I've understood how much pain she has, still the family is my priority.

[Awoken]

I went to my first Al-Anon meeting last night. It was really hard, and I sat there near tears the whole time and with knots in my stomach. Out of about 20 people, it was mostly women. Most of them were there for either their alcoholic parents or children. There were a few with spouses. From their stories I've got the idea that I'm very early in my sitch with W's alcohol problems. That felt good;

Even though I was a wreck during the meeting (as were others), right afterward several people came right up and talked to me and it helped out. Mostly, it's a similar message to DB: work on myself. Again, I'm confronted with my lack a patience in that I wanted more answers. What I need to do is go to meetings regularly and work it.

I'm still confused about what steps to take next, other than patience and seek more counseling. I have another meeting saturday with a men's group.

[Awoken]

more journaling:

W did continue with her drinking this week, but mostly smaller amounts. However, another bad sign. She overslept for work. She usually goes in between 5am and 6:30, has to be there by 7. She got up at 7, and skipped all her morning routine. That's never happened before.

Two things this morning. She started getting ready for work at 3am. She is still using the master bathroom for showers only. I went ahead and got up and went downstairs to do some work. She eventually comes in the office to talk to me about D17. She says they had a fight on Sunday and D17 is very angry with her. She thinks it's a problem with D17's birth control pills effecting her moods, and wants to schedule a doctors appointment for her after thanksgiving. She adds "of course, there is some stress in the house". no kidding!

It's basically her talking, and me saying "I understand".

The thing is she looked stunning, and it shook me up again. I've been avoiding her in the mornings. I can smell the perfume after she leaves, but this is the first time I've really seen her. New dress, hair, perfume. I couldn't really look straight at her.

I've been suspicious of her leaving so early in the mornings. She used to leave at 6:30, not 5. I checked cell phone records, and she had a 20 minute phone call with suspect OM yesterday. So after she left, I waited 5 minutes and then drove over to her work to see if she was there. It's a desperate thing to do, right? Well, her car was there, and

I'm feeling stupid. I need to focus on the other problems.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

If she's still talking to the OM, what difference does it make if she's at work or not? Contact is contact.

Puppy

[Awoken]

If she's still talking to the OM, what difference does it make if she's at work or not? Contact is contact.
Puppy

clearly it doesn't matter, and I shouldn't be thinking about it. Stay focused on me and kids!

what was going through my mind was to figure out when she's meeting the OM, so that I could hire a PI to move my evidence beyond her denials. But this is my thinking from over a week ago, and I shouldn't still be obsessing about it. It's been a rough week.

Right now the hardest time is from 3am when the ambien wears off until I take the kids to school. I need to get busy then!

[Awoken]

My W wants us to go shopping together with D17 this saturday, for D17's belated birthday presents. Evidently to make up for the shopping problems between the two of them last weekend.

I think it's the right thing for D17 for us to do this, showing that we can do something together (it will be hard!).

But does it weaken me to W to just go along with this, since it's really just a face saving measure for her?

When W asked, I said "D17 had planned on shopping together during the Thanksgiving break, but I'll check my schedule and consider it".

I should let her know tonite or tomorrow. How should I approach W with this?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I would go, but I'd tell her she'd DAMNED sure not cancel this time!

[Awoken]

I did just that (via text), and W agreed.

I'm going to meet them at the mall tomorrow afternoon. I realize that this will be the first thing we have really done together since the bomb. I don't think we have spent more than a few minutes together the past 4 weeks, other than the awful R talks.
Any advice? I'm going for D17, but I'm anxious.

[Awoken]

I saw our MC (studied with MWD) for IC yesterday. I found out that W called and scheduled an IC meeting for monday, before she goes out of town!

I ran my options by her, and it seems like the best thing for now is to continue with Al-anon, wait through thanksgiving and then we'll meet W at MC. The MC agrees that status quo can't continue.

It may be that once me and W talk this over we can agree on a direction? I'm doubtful, but I think I should at least try it since I have some time with the break.

[Gardener]

Awoken and Norm,

[quote=Awoken]Among others, there are two primary reasons why the AA method fails. The first is removal of individual responsibility; “We admit that we were powerless over alcohol”. This is a victim mentality. It says, “I can’t control myself”. If you don’t have control over yourself, who does? This is a recipe for failure.

Second, is that notion that “Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. If you take one drink, you’re doomed”. The world isn’t perfect and no human being is perfect. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy; “Well, I slipped and had a drink. Guess I’m screwed. Bartender! Gimme a double!” A sure-fire recipe for failure. I could go on and on.

But whatever you do, DON’T DRINK THE AA BREW! IT’S POISON!

I just saw this and have to wholeheartedly agree!! I've spoken often on this forum about my drinking and researching before quitting on 2/06/06 via Rational Recovery.

AA did not resonate for me because;

-Everything Norm said above
-I am not powerless
-My life was not unmanageable
-I am not insane
-I am not diseased
-I did NOT buy into"You WILL relapse; it's part of the disease and is to be expected,"
-I did not like the religiosity of it, even though I am a religious man
-I, personally, did not buy the "can only do it one day at a time" theory. If there is an addictive side to my personality, it would just love to hear this: Not today? Okay, I'll getcha tomorrow.
- Sloganism doesn't do it for me.
-I wanted to stop drinking, not "have God remove all my character defects" a) That is my lifelong path between me and God and has nothing to do with drinking. b)If, say, a womanizer has a drinking problem and he stops drinking but is still a womanizer, guess what? He succeeded. Goal was to stop drinking.

The Psychiatrists DSM IV no longer even recognizes alcoholic or alcoholism anymore. Dependence? Sure. Abuse? Yep. But Alcoholism a stand-alone life-long disease/diagnosis? Nope. Doesn't exist.

I quit after reading Jack Trimpey's The Little Book, his answer to AA's The Big Book and especially Rational Recovery wherein he posits, among other things that alcohol abuse is sometimes little more "than stupid behavior in a non-stupid person". That and the rest of the book resonated I quit 2/06/06 and never had a regret, a temptation, an urge, white knuckle. lip biting moment. I am not "in recovery". I have recovered.

Problem? My wife went to al-anon and bought into it: "That's your disease talking", etc. Even almost 4 years later calls me a "Dry Drunk". I looked it up on google and stopped counting at SEVENTY-FOUR symptoms and characteristics of a Dry Drunk and came to the conclusion that a Dry Drunk is simply anyone who has the temerity to stop drinking without AA!

They've even co-opted the vocabulary When police do a "sobriety check", what is sobriety? Absence of Alcohol.To AA, mere absence of alcohol= Dry Drunk. To AA Sobriety is absence of alcohol only by working their program

Sorry for rambling. I've explained my success through Rational Recovery and counseling before, but refrained from "going off" on AA/Al-Anon. God Bless the 5% that have been helped by AA. God Bless, also, the statistically proven 74% who quit successfully for life on their own! The most successful approach of them all.

Approach it with a healthy skepticism, this AA and Al-Anon and see how many people or their loved ones have been working the program for years and keep "relapsing" but that's okay because "it's expected; it's part of their disease."This is success? This is healthy? I think not.

Sorry, getting off soapbox, now.