Just want my H back

[hhh]

Dear LFA,
Great to hear from you too! How are you doing? Any changes in your sitch? It sounded like things were in hands of L's last time you posted..and all through them. How are you doing yourself? You've sounded so much stronger too. We all have are dark days, I know, but overall I think we are learning much better to cope and to be more self-sufficient and find happiness within ourselves, and (try) to let go of the outcomes. All the stuff I've read on detaching is just great.

To you and others - this is a question I've been pondering. Say I initiate myself..slowly getting to that place. If I were to do what COACH suggests above (and I truly see the strength in such an approach, when ready) and H were to say "OK, I agree, let's D" - then do you think that outcome would have happened anyway?

I read so many stories - and on this site - of the LBS taking the control back and moving on, and ONLY THEN does the WAS seems to then question things really ending. Once you move on, they are not so sure anymore. However, you can't do this as a tact to get them back, as of course they may not come back and agree w you to end things. If that's the case, would it have ended anyway?

This I wonder. Just want to know what I'm getting myself into. I know there are no certainties, but if he's 100% sure he's done w me - and no action or inaction will change that - than yes, I would rather move on w my life. And if he doesn't want to make it work given this final approach, am I better off without him?

I guess if I go down this path and he complies, I'd somehow feel better knowing that's what would have happened anyway, rather than feeling that I forced it or something. I am hard on myself sometimes and did blame myself for a long time for him walking out. I don't want to blame myself again once it ends for good after I take bull by horns, but truth be told that very well may have happened anyway.

I know I have a lot going for me regardless, and if H doesn't want to give this a chance (no indication he does), than I guess that's not my problem. I don't want to be w someone who walks out when the going gets rough...and how he's handled this separation certainly shows he can't doesn't want to deal, period.

G'night all..sorry for the analytical rambling.
-hhh

[pearlharbr]

Just want to know what I'm getting myself into. I know there are no certainties, but if he's 100% sure he's done w me - and no action or inaction will change that - than yes, I would rather move on w my life. And if he doesn't want to make it work given this final approach, am I better off without him?

I guess if I go down this path and he complies, I'd somehow feel better knowing that's what would have happened anyway, rather than feeling that I forced it or something.

The first part is right--there are no certainties. You want a guarantee that doing X or Y is the right thing to do, meaning the right thing to do to get him back. It's the same thing as all LBS wanting to know why their WAS just left without any warning and without wanting to work on the M. You have to come to terms with the fact that you may never know these answers. That's why you make choices based on WHAT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO FOR HHH.

I'm also an advocate of you knowing when it's right to file if it's right for you. I can't explain it other than for me, it was like a light switch being flipped and at that point I just knew. If you don't feel it, don't do it.

I do urge you to not make that decision based on fear of the unknown. Decisions based on fear will not lead to you living your best life.

[Gardener]

HHH and Pearl. Following along and just had to agree and comment on something that hit home

It's the same thing as all LBS wanting to know why their WAS just left without any warning and without wanting to work on the M. You have to come to terms with the fact that you may never know these answers.

aaaaaarrrrgghhhhh!!!!!!

Thank you. I feel better now. Please proceed.

[LookingFrAnswers]

Hi H,
Thanks for asking. Yes, I met w L yesterday since H & I met a few weeks ago. I agreed to meet H (offsite - not at our house) & talk about how to "split" things up. L told me it would be OK to do this & save some L fees. Of course not everything got resolved but I have decided I don't want to keep the house, which I've been living in by myself since March, & don't really want to live there anymore either. I do want the dogs, who have been my little angels through this, while H has basically ignored them.

So my quandry is finding a place that will take 2 good-sized dogs, and will H move back to house, since he doesn't want to sell (we'd take a loss). etc., etc. My L understands well I think, that while I do not want to D, or even initiate the S agrmt, I do want to protect myself financially. And him living w OW while having full access to a joint checking savings & cr card w me is cake-eating, it has finally dawned on me! It really took a mo. to process that he moved in w her, & he still has not told me! He never will! I am 99.999% sure though. So, anyway I feel my L is looking out for my best interests & can guide me through some of these financial/property decisions.

Enough about me, back to you. I just read this on Bobbi Jo's thread, and H you should read it for a different perspective than the one I gave above. Please know that you have our support no matter what you decide to do, or when you decide to do it. We understand like no one else! I agree w Pearl that when you're ready you will know. And of course there are no guarantees of the outcome as you realize.

But I do think you are blaming yourself too much. You should never blame yourself for wanting to take back your life, especially when he knows how much you wanted to make the M work.
Please take a look: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...nt=2&page=1

[hhh]

Hi Friends,
I know it's been awhile since I've posted...I still check in and read posts from time to time. Feeling a bit emotional today. I am meeting with H tomorrow for coffee. He emailed me earlier this week to see about getting together before the holidays. We've been separated for 1 year with limited contact, he getting a new apartment this summer (living in dorm before) and more or less pushed me out of his life (reasons listed in prior posts).

I know I've got to face this...we've been in limbo for so long. I've been doing a lot of growing and reflecting and know that I'm in a much better place overall than I was 6 months ago, stopped all pursuit, GAL and focused on becoming a better person for myself, regardless of outcome. I am able to see things more clearly now about my relationship too, but of course there is still so much love there, and more mourning I've been feeling lately as this is all the more real.

I think I've grasped that there is nothing more i can do to save this marriage. It's got to take two. Nonetheless I am so sad and will always feel sad that he would not give us a shot, an opening to communicate and work on seemingly small issues. But that is his deal and not mine, I know. I feel like I might break down and cry when we talk tomorrow. I may just not be able to help it. I've cried a few nights alone this week as I think about the good times, and then also feel some anger at how he's handled this past year and just completely changed as a person. I still feel betrayed like he's tried to erase me completely out of his life, totally self-absorbed...and I know this is not someone that would/could be a good partner to me anyway. I keep trying to tell myself "you don't want to be with someone who does not want to be with you" and 'you deserve a wonderful loving partner who is mature and willing to do the work when needed, not run away, not skirt issues, and love me for me and my flaws and foibles and strengths. H is not that person anymore, even though yes, I do still love him. If he was open to counseling or anything yes I would too. That's just how I feel and that marriage is not disposable. But I also deserve been than he's been lately (and sad b/c he was so wonderful in our early years of marriage). There are just so many memories, it's hard to erase them all away.

How to find strength and confidence in this meeting as I approach him tomorrow? He'll talk about filing and mediation/ending our marriage of this I am sure. But it may be the kick i need to move on and move forward, for real. I will move to CA earlier next year to be closer to family and friends, and had been wanting some closure before I take this big step. So this is likely very well it.

I think it's pointless to try to get him to reconsider anything at this point. I think I just go along w it, but stand my ground as needed. I need to keep confident - if i can pull it together - and remember what I am worth. Anyone done anything in particular to help them 'pull it together' before such meetings? Scary, but i've gotta go right through it, not around at this point. Lately I've been visualizing a big pool/ocean and just thinking about jumping into it and moving forward. It helps to some extent. If I cry or get emotional, well I am human, and that may very well happen. At this point I don't think I'm trying to change anything..I'm just trying to face it and hopefully not be too overcome by the pain afterwards. I am in my office today and keep feeling like I am on the verge of tears. I may want to spend some time in bed this weekend, just resting and being easy on myself...

Then I go home for the holidays w my family. I feel partially like H's timing sucks right before Xmas, but at the same time, it would just drag on another month if we did not deal.

Just journaling to some extent I guess. Sad, feeling a bit anxious and panicky...feeling abandoned again too I guess, but trying to stay strong.

It is wonderful to have you all here as part of this broader community. As always, many thanks...
hhh

[hhh]

Hi-
Saw H today for coffee. We had a nice chat and simple conversation. Tender feelings came back as we were getting along. But then the inevitable, I got the D papers. He wants to do clean and simple sans lawyers (we have zero shared assets and no children, property, etc). I was expecting it so not totally surprised...at the same time the reality of it hit all again and I cried and cried. Like totally broke down in front of him that he asked if I needed a paper bag so I wouldn't hyperventilate. It was hard. At this point, after 1 year of separation, I realize there is no point any longer in trying to convince your H to give M a 2nd chance when they have zero desire to. Sad b/c I feel like i'm now the woman/wife he wanted me to be....this time apart has forced me to do much soul searching for the better, and I do think I am a better, happier, more grounded and giving person now. But too late, apparently.

I went into a little spiel (couldn't help myslef) about how i don't believe in D unless last resort - meanging you try all you can to save a M and if it doesn't work, fine, you move on - but I take my vows and commitment so seriously and he just walks away when the going gets a little rough. It's sad b/c I do still love him, but what's the point in trying to rationalize w someone who no longer wants to be married to you. No retreat, no counseling, he refuses. And I do think I deserve better than this. I hinted at that and he agreed. So WTF? yet he also continued to blame me for M ending...although i've taken 110% responsibility and tried to change in better ways, for myself (but these also addressed issues he had w me/us).

So this is what MWD means...you can DB your ass off, and it can still not make a difference. You cannot control or change someone else or make them love you when they have time and time again said they do not feel that way about you, nor want to anymore.

It is what it is I guess at this point. I have these papers next to me right now but cannot make myself sign them. Over the holidays I'm going to start making my move happen. I need to physically move on and heal. My M is over. I am sad and mourning and crying. But it's done.

I guess we are resilient beings and we heal over time, but it isn't easy. But this site has helped me get back on my feet a lot across these past few months. I feel like I groveled a bit today in our meeting and didn't like that, but I can't help myself, I'm human w emotions and was sad and I cried. Now I've gotta just sign, I guess. But I still don't want this D. Ugh.

[goldeylox]

(((hhh)))
I don't have any words, just hugs. You sound like you are in a pretty good spot. Be gentle with yourself for a few days.
Do you have plans for Christmas/New Years?
Goldey

[hhh]

Thanks Goldey. I just can't stop crying. I am so sad right now. It was hard seeing H than I thought it would be...and I'm mad at myself for getting emotional and then upset. I reiterated that I don't believe in walking away from a marriage..which they led to a 'tit-for-tat' discussion of him telling me that I pushed him out, that he tried for years to make it work and I didn't reciprocate (not true, but how he sees it). I feel like I am blaming myself all over again...where across the past few months I'd come to see him as a different (and less desirable) character.

Now again I see things I did that pushed him away. But there were things he did too. Is one capable of forgiveness? He is not, and continued to rehash all the bad/mean things I did (or he interprets as such) after presenting me with papers. He could have been a little kinder about it. But then I also probably should have just acquised, agreed to the divorce without a fight. What's the point of fighting it when he's hell bent on getting one?

How do I approach things going forward? He's not asking for anything, just the divorce...nothing shared (and I have more assets than he) so it's probably in my best interest to do it when he's so eager to get out. I don't want to fight for $$ the only thing I wanted to fight for was to have him go to Retrovaille or counseling w me. He refuses and said if I didn't sign he would file a contested divorce.

Sad. But I guess just being kind and going along is the best route now? The tough thing is when we have civil exchanges and he's kind I want to fight for him as my husband, and when I try to fight for M then he gets nasty w me again. I couldn't help but bring up 'well how do you think I feel that you walked out on me, you didn't invite me to your graduation, etc etc' which then went down some other whole new path of family issues and other baggage and fighting.

I told him again how many things I've done and changed - and he sees that - just doesn't love me anymore or want to be married to me. That's one thing, must he then pour salt into the wound by telling me again that I pushed him out and pushed him to D? That almost hurts more than the D itself.

[hhh]

Just journaling again this morning. Didn't sleep much at all last night. In many ways I feel like the D itself I can accept..and I know I need to move on and out of necessity.

Whay hurts the most - feels like lemon in an open wound - was H blaming me again for the devise of our M. For the past year+ I have done everything in my power to save this marraige (and even before he moved out), but he only remembers the conflicts of earlier years and threw them all in my face. He didn't seem to care how much I was hurting, and kept saying 'you need to move on'. I have made mountains of progress from 6 months ago when I was so depressed over the situation...he doesn't see any of that.

And yes, he was responding to my declaration, upon receipt of papers, that "I don't believe in just walking away like the way he did...that it was essentially abandonment". So maybe I proviked him, I know. At the same time, I called it out exactly as it was. He's so brainwashed himself to think I'm the cause of everything to justify his own actions. Can I tell him this or will this only do more damage?

When I pointed out that he walked on our our M, he said, "No, W, I didn't walk out on you, you pushed me to leave b/c you didn't get along w my family, my temper issues - he felt he'd hurt me if he stayed - and his self-esteem issues - that I whiddled away at." So in essence he's blaming me on his own actions and feelins. Yes, I did things to contribute and i OWN those. I guess it's pointless trying to rationalize w a man like this at this point...but I feel like I'm getting into the self-blame cycle all over again when I finally got out of it few months ago.

How do I tell him now that 'yes, I do want this process to go amicably' but please stop blaming me for where we are when you know darn well I've done everything to help up - albeit unsuccessfully - across this past year (while he was out partying and socializing and denying the situation entirely).
How to I let go of these 'yucky' feelings from such a sad/tough conversation, while also letting him know please don't go there w me. It's like I want to call him out on his abandonment but I prob shouldn't (I did hold myself back from saying 'he was just like his father' who did the same thing to his family by walking out...he comes from a bit of a broken home, and I do think it plays a role in how he sees M/commitment). Do I just let that go and work on my own healing/recovery? Yes, I know. But I'm so digusted by the 'oh here's the papers I want to push this D forward, and btw this is all your doing' approach.

[goldeylox]

Well, if my memory serves me, you have clearly gone more than halfway to define what it is you want.
If I recall, you had checked out Retro, and he simply would not make the phone call. Doesn't sound like we have two people willing to commit to even a weekend.
Sleep on it. Take a few days. I hate to say this, but at least there aren't any kids. Believe me, it can be worse.
Are you in the alt? Peace.
Goldey