Question

[Lucky11too]

I think that's true though too. I get the idea about being postive and upbeat in front of them, but it seems at some point, pretending is just not enough. Everything's not ok, and at times, they need that reminder. I think this is particularly true when they are open to work on things (when they are not there yet, to be so open might push them away). He is open to working on things and seems to honestly be trying, so he should know what the issues are and be given a chance to work thru them. Now it's up to him to prove it to you...

Good goals. Now just keep an eye out for any of those baby steps. If it's applicable, maybe you could even let him know that you appreciate all the effort he is making and would like to be given a chance to see those changes in person. (so kind of open it up for him to be around you more - him iniated of course). But I think you guys went thru the hard stuff last night, so hopefully your conversations can be more positive overall now, as you kind keep it open and encouraging. Continue to give him a reason to come home...

But shoot, I really hope that isn't the case this time. If he is being this nice and 'trying to change', but has OW living w/ him now, I'm going to have to fly to Indiana and come beat him up with you. haha. But given the past, I understand your reservations. Try to give him the benefit a doubt, but do whatever you can do protect your heart. Oh, I so hope for the best on this. You're making a lot of progress or more importantly, HE, is making progress, which is the one thing we can't control. Let's pray he keeps it up.

[awest1217]

Good night! I did a no, no, but it turned out well. I am still feeling really bad, and at about 4:45 S put his hands down his poopy diaper and it was a mess. I put him in the bath and just felt the daunting feeling that this was going to be a bad night for S and I. I still am not feeling well, S was fussy, so overall with me not having the strength to deal with fussiness because I was fussy myself, I knew I needed help. H said he wanted to help so I text him and asked if he could come over for a few hours to help take care of S so I could relax because I have to be at work tomorrow. I figured he would say he was busy, but he right away said he would be here, asked what I needed to feel better, and what I wanted for dinner.

He got here and right away went to making dinner with making sure to ask S to help the whole time. It was great! I got to sit on the couch and relax. Then after eating he got out Candyland and we played that together with S, and S played really well. We tried a few other games and it was great, fun and relaxing. Then H helped me put S to bed, and because H was there, S actually fell asleep without me in the room. Yes, S is in my bed, but I got to watch SYTYCD and relax for the first time in weeks, which was very strengthening. H also checked my throat and said I have tonsilitis (he got it a lot as a kid). He told me what I should do to feel better and I said I would do it. He also said call again if I need anything or get worse.

Not too long after H left this is the text conversation we had.

H - Thank you again for letting me help tonight. i hope you are continuing to see changes in me that you like. sweet dreams.

me - I love you the way you are, but yes I am seeing changes. You helped a lot tonight. without you it would have been stressful for me fighting with S to eat and trying to entertain him while trying to relax. thank you and thank you for the diagnosis and how to fix it. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Good night!

H- tonight meant a lot to me because not only did i get to play with S and spend time together with you, I also felt like you respected me as an intelligent individual, and didn't claim to have all of the answers. thank you for that. good night, sleep well.

me - thank you for really focusing on us and noticing my changes. night

This was great! I think for the first time in months we saw each other's changes and respected on another. It was great for me to show how if he comes home I want to be able to rely on him and just let go to him to let him be my husband and not control everything. It was also nice to see that he is willing and able to be that person to take care of me and S.

I know that we say to stick to certain steps, but I think I am past LRT and really need to just go with what I feel is right in my heart as I face this unknown territory. I don't want to get overly excited because once again OW could be living with H, especially with some things he said tonight makes me wonder, but at the same time he is trying so just appreciating the steps.

I am still not feeling well, but H gave S some allergy medicine so S is out for the count. Now we can both sleep well tonight.

[Lucky11too]

That is excellent news! I think you are right (as we both are discovering), we know our H's and the sitch's the best, and sometimes we may have to go outside the 'rules'. And if it doesn't work, we retreat. But luckily for both of us, yesterday, it did work! =)

What a great conversation you two had last night. It was really based on mutual understanding and respect. Love it! =) The fact that he wants to change and wants you to see the changes in him, speaks loudy. But yes, I would agree with you, I think you are ready to move past the LRT. LRT is to bring H back to be marriage table, and he seems to be there. Now you will just have to continue to practice what you've learned (respect, letting go, etc) and start to build your R again. From what I hear, this rebuiliding process can take a long time, but it sounds like you are at the beginning of it & you have to start somewhere. So definitely keep your heart open to H and his steps, but I understand your reservations too. Hope you got the wonderful sleep you needed last night!

[awest1217]

I didn't get enough sleep, but it was a start. S did sleep the entire night and slept great. I am just exhausted from being sleep deprived and being sick. My throat is still bad, but stomach is constantly doing better!

H text me this morning asking how I was. I responded. Then he sent me an e-mail (first in forever). It was a forward about teachers, but he sent it. Then he text me again at lunch to see how I was doing. It is nice! I hope this is will keep happening. I am going to take your suggestion Lucky and move out of DBing and into relationship mending. I have to start thinking about some of the other books I read and put them into action. Mostly giving away control, but that will be easier the more I see this is true.

With the OW part, I am 80% sure she has moved in with H, but I decided to stop focusing on that. Why should I be obsessing over her? She needs to be worried about me. H is spending more and more time texting, calling, and being with me. I need to think more that way instead of how upset I am that he may be sleeping in the same bed as her. He only sees her (if she moved back) from 8pm until they go to bed, and that is it. I get much more "time" with him so I need to focus on that. Foster my relationship with H so that she gets left in the dust. Realistically, I am pretty sure I am going to get hurt through all of this, but I have one king left and if I can take out his "queen", we will have a fighting chance.

[Lucky11too]

Wait, hold on a minute. Just my opinion, but I don't think you should move out of DBing, just out of LRT. You still have work to do, especially if OW is living with H. There are boundaries that still need to be kept. Besides that, DB principles are practical for all type of R's not just crisis ones like ours (Michele talks about have she uses it in her great marriage to handle the everyday arguments too). You know, if somethings not working, you try something different, etc etc. Keep this DBing base, but now add to it the other things you are learning/reading about to continue to grow your R.

But going back to OW, that is a great way to look at it. The tables are reversing! And most likely, she is going to start grasping to hang on as she sees him slipping from her and no guy likes those clingy desperate girls. Obviously right now as you are in the beginning stages of growing your R, you don't want to set any ultimatums, but be prepared for that momment in the near future when you have to set that boundary and basically say it's me and our family or her. Or better yet, as he grows closer to you, hopefully he'll do that before you have to ask. Keep fighting!

[awest1217]

Good/bad news.

H came over after work. He bought me honey, tea, and a new quicker thermometer (the last one is good, but makes me think he is not coming home soon because he has one so if he is coming home why do we need two?). He suggested getting those things and came over. He then went right to making me tea. He also made me dinner, more tea, and more tea. Because of all of it, my throat is actually starting to feel better. While he was busy, I did another bad thing. I checked his phone...I had to know...OW has moved in. Good things...H did not once say "I love you" in all the texts to her, every text was more work related or at least about what going to eat that night. Bad things...H thinks OW might be pregnant. I am pretty sure it is NOT H's baby based on the texts and phone records and a few other things about H that are private.

Later, H stayed on his own will. I said something about the first every name exchange for my family (5 sibs total so exchanging names to make it better and get better gifts). H asked if it was a couple exchange or just names. I said we are picking a couple except my little sister will be a single since she does not have a spouse yet. He asked what I was doing for us. I asked if we would be "together" then. He said would you like to be. Of course, I said yes. Then he went on to talk about what is holding him back and how before he always felt like I didn't respect him. I said I understand and that I didn't respect him and controlled him and want to work on that. He said how he noticed how I did change and let him take control, which he liked. We just kept talking from one thing to another. Everything was positive. He kept talking to me and I listened. When he stopped I would just agree and say how I agree. I told him a few insights I had today, like how kids show the true meaning of forgiveness and love because S does not care what H does. He loves his daddy and wants him home no matter what. I cried, he cried, but everything was very positive. We talked about football, teaching...a lot for about one hour.

During that time, OW called three times and he never got up to answer and I didn't say anything about it. He just completely ignored it. One baby step.

So a few baby steps tonight; coming over without being invited to take care of me, bringing up R on his own, and ignoring OW when she called.

However, she is living with him, and I forgot to mention, there was something about christmas flight tickets...

I just don't know. I watched Glee tonight and I laughed and cried because the songs get to me. I was at a point where I wanted to do an ultimatum, but at the same time, if H really isn't doing anything with OW, but giving her someplace to stay (her H stays out late drinking) then maybe he really is trying with me. He did ignore her and didn't right away when she called say "I have to leave". Also with her calling, it means he didn't tell her ahead of time. He just took care of me because he wanted to. I told him he didn't have to because although I am tired and have a sore throat, I could make dinner and everything, but he said no I am going to do it and deal with it. It wasn't mean, but more saying I want to do this so don't worry about it.

I think this is my plan. I am going to keep to what I have been doing. Good but bad my throat really is starting to feel better so H won't come over to take care of me, and it is so nice to have. Thanksgiving is just us. Our anniversary is three weeks later, and I am kind of hoping for him to do something, but I know I am setting myself up so trying to not expect it. Then Christmas. Then New Years. I am planning if H is not home on New Years, giving the ultimatum then. I am going to ask "Are we going to start 2010 as a family or not? You know where I will be so you decide what how you would like this year to start. I hope to see you!" We always have church on new year's and pray in the new year so hopefully he would come, but that is a while away.

I am really rambling tonight. Just a lot on my mind, sorry.

[awest1217]

Forgot to add how H started on a conversation how, isn't it goo this happened now instead of later, and how by going through this and coming out on the other side we can teach S what to be careful of. I said how it will be awesome to someday help other couples with their R when things like this happen to them and he agreed. Another step towards R.

[Lucky11too]

A lot of interesting stuff there...not sure how to process it all. Overall, a lot of positive communication and actions! =) So, going back to OW, it's odd that he's 'letting' her live with him, but I guess that's not the focus right now (but it obviously will have to be addressed at some point). He chose you over her tonight in many ways, and that's the way it always should be. So great step for him! Since it's obviously working, just keep doing what you are doing. Hopefully, the changes will come naturally & you won't have to do the ultimatum. Really interesting about the talk of "coming out the other side" though...it's always a good thing when you both have a common goal in mind. Great job tonight! =)

[awest1217]

I know I didn't post yesterday and probably won't post as much because this trimester I am teaching two different courses (3 chemistry and 1 physics). Plus with the chemistry I am always more involved partially because that is where my focus is so not as much time to type.

I still have a pretty bad sore throat. H has been great about checking in. He didn't come over yesterday, but he constantly text to see how I was doing. My throat feels better, but it still has not improved enough to not go to a doctor so I am going to try to get an appointment for today. It feels great in the morning, but once I start teaching and mothering...it is gone, but at least a little better. I wouldn't go to the doctor if I wasn't helping my youth group at our concession stand tomorrow (being out in the cold, and talking all day...not good for the throat). So if it is something bad, I need to get it taken care of. S is feeling better. Has a runny nose, but no ear infections...YEAH

I was thinking this morning. Maybe I am wrong about the texts I read and OW hasn't moved in. It could be that she goes to H's house every night to eat dinner, but leaves to sleep at her own place. Last night there was once again late night phone calls, so maybe she went home. I thought about saying something to H, but I think that would just set us back a ton. I am just going to think positive and hope for the best. I have to take everything one step at a time and keep thinking "Don't say anything until New Year's". I really do want to see what will happen because who knows. We have Thanksgiving next week. S's tubes put in. Then if I can focus on me and S for three weeks it is our wedding anniversary. I think that is what will let me know where H is focuses. Kind of my own "thermometer" per se. Then a week later Christmas and a week later New Year's. It is scary to think that in a little over a month a lot could change for the good or bad, but I have set my own boundary that I will NOT allow this to continue to next year. There has to be some type of big step by then so I have a direction for the new year. 9 years of competition is enough.

I have to just remember...I want my M to work and I need to keep my mouth shut!

[Lucky11too]

Wow, you sure do have a busy school schedule this year! Excellent news that S is feeling better. Too bad you aren't doing as well. Good luck with the dr today!

Yeah, I think that's a good idea...just take it a day a time time. I know you kind of have this set timeline in mind, but just be open to being sonewhat flexible depending on how things progress. But I completely understand about the boundary you want to make for 2010. 2009 completely sucked, and I don't want to go thru another year like this. January 1st, 2010 will be a new year and I want it to be that way - NEW! I was thinking of proposing something like u with my H (ie. plan something for us as we "start over in this new year". New Year's Eve was the day I found the emails with OW last year, so needless to say, last year's was the worst ever, and i am ready for a change). But it sounds like you should have a feel for where he is at over the next month, depending on how he responds to these different events. The anniversary will be particularly interesting. It's just really great that he's showing love and care for you during this time when you are sick. OW seems to be losing, so let's hope that trend continues! I know there are still a lot of questions about what's the deal with OW, but like you said, you just have to keep your mouth shut for now, and let him continue to draw to you, and if he doesn't cut it off himself, (and you feel he truely is committed to you), then you make your ultimatum as planned. Just keep being positive and let the positive changes continue!