Of course everyone has setbacks. I had plenty! Sorry if I come across as hard, I just know that you are strong and you will make it through this so I want to keep you on that path.
I was the same way with being in limbo. At first my position was that if he wanted out then it was up to him to do it, I was not going to make things easier for him because that's exactly what he wanted. When I had my aha moment and decided to throw his sorry ass out, I just realized I had enough. If he wanted to be with OW and was too much of a coward to act on it then I would be the one to man up and kick him out. And I told him exactly that which felt fantastic . So it's something you'll have to decide for yourself. Can you truly detach without moving the paperwork forward? If so, great. If not, you'll know when you've had enough and just want to get it over with.
Yes, the distraction of another person being interested in you can do wonders for your self esteem and also be damaging if you throw yourself into another R before you're ready. It is nice knowing that there are other men out there who will appreciate you and want to be with you. In fact that's one of my biggest problems right now, struggling with that realization and wondering if BF is still the best option for me. Do be careful when starting to date but definitely start to date!
I agree with LFA re: your disapproving gf. I have one of those too. I know she just wants what is best for me but she has never been in a serious R so she has no idea of the dynamics and challenges involved. Don't let her lecture you. Tell her that you appreciate her love and support but you will not let her judge you or your actions.
Definitely go to the lawyers. Don't put your head in the sand on this issue. You don't want to be caught unaware. If I remember correctly, you make considerably more $ than your H and I don't want to see him take you to the cleaners. Protect yourself! I think one of the advantages to paying an inital consultation fee was that then you are considered a client and your H cannot retain that L because there would be a conflict. Not sure if that's true for your state so check into it. May be a good defensive move that would cost a few hundred up front but possibly save much more in the long run.
If you want to stay on the east coast for you then by all means stay. I was asking because before you said you would definitely move back to CA if things with your H didn't work out. I think at this point it's better to make decisions based on what you want and not let H enter the equation. Right now he's gone and out of your life. If he decides to work on the M and if you decide that's what you want then you make decisions based on the two of you.
Whew, that was longer than I intended! Hope you are having a good week so far. Do you have fun Halloween plans?
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
LFA and Pearl, Kind thoughts and words of wisdom - thank you. People who are not going through this don't often understand like those here. The majority of my friends are just great, and encouraging, and sound boards/comfort when needed, but this one just got to me b/c I am trying to feel out what I want in this new territory and her advice does influence me, even though i don't want it too (am i just too weak here?) The weird this is that said GF got divorced herself a year before me (had an affair w her boss!) and has been in that relationship w boss since her D...but she hasn't really dated much at all since got married young, and she pushed her D and moved on very quickly (said wasn't in love w H and kaboom, done very quickly! i am just not like that)...even though she's one of my oldest friends we are very different people, and i think she's taken me on as her 'project' or something when now as I look back a lot of the advice she gave me was very wrong for me. I guess I need to put up better boundaries w her...she's also a very closed and guarded person, and i am not. The old hhh was very open, let life happen, go w the flow, spontaneous, and i've started to recpture that spirit again (meeting new people and guys is part of that...and it is exciting and helping me move on) - her lecturing me (she's very opposite and calculated in everything) just doesn't feel right, and truly confuses me sometimes. I think my M.O. of being 'open to experiences' is very healthy and helps me, and she keeps telling me to be very guarded (which I think will prevent me from moving ahead). I guess I just need to realize she means best and loves me, as she told me. I told her and we got in a bit of a fight about it...i think i need to just let it go b/c discussing further w her at this pt makes it worse. I know the 2-3 people i really trust w sound advice and will use them more now, plus great folks here
Yes, I will call lawyers...i have friend going through mediation and she found the process easy and simple. from my exchange w H on Sunday he was very cordial and did not seem like he would throw me for a loop - but you never know.
I am going back to NYC this weekend to hang w girlfriends, and also see this guy I've gone out w a couple times. Again, don;t think he wants anything serious but it's a fun distraction and the attention is nice right now, plus it's helped me feel like my old self again.
I am trying to live in the present as much as possible and not worry about limbo stuff...i think it will play itself out one way or another but thinking year-end definitely..will be in SF around Xmastime and good part of January, so then I can really feel if a move makes sense. Regardless of H, I in some ways like my life here now b/c it's challenged me to reach out and make some new friends..but it is much easier when I'm in NYC or SF as there are so many people i know and much to do...truthfully, when I am busy and in the 'flow' i don't think about H as much, and that is good.
LFA - I'll check out your thread...i'm so sorry about what's happened..know that you are a wonderful good person and good things happen only if you are open to them and do what you want, be good to yourself.
Pearl - I hear you in some ways about your struggles...I know when I was w H there were often times when I kept wanted to see what else was out there, was there someone that was a better fit for me. I never knew if it was just my doubtful/questioning/overanalyzing personality, but I always felt a little trapped in the sense that i hadn't explored many other post-college relationships before getting married. And everyone has flaws.. but i think perhaps my continual questioning meant something. Who knows? I struggle with, when you find the right person do you just instinctually know it, or will I always have doubts? That's the perennial question... do others struggle w this as well? Or maybe I'll find another guy and it will feel so much different, as if it's more meant to be...or maybe not. Who knows? I hope I'll have a gut feeling about it somehow b.c one of my biggest fears if H and I do D is "am I going to always doubt if X guy is the right one?" You should just kind of know, shouldn't you?
Sorry for the long-winded thoughts this morning... Hugs to all, hhh
Yes, sounds like you should stick to the other friends and leave that one gf out of the loop. She's giving you R advice after she cheated on her H and has continued that R?? Whatever.
However, she does have a point about being cautious. I understand that you're enjoying just going with the flow. But it can be tricky doing that and dating while you're on the rebound. Please please please just try to not get attached to this guy (or the next one). When I was discussing appreciating male attention with the C he said it was ok as long as I understood that I wasn't ready to date because I needed to heal and be on my own for a while first.
I did end up hooking up with someone I've known for a long time. He's the perfect person for a rebound fling because he's definitely not into commitment but fun to be with. Of course I ended up liking him a bit too much but BF came back into the picture so c'est la vie. Just be careful, I know of what I speak.
I did get something out of it. I know that there are other men out there who enjoy spending time with me. Chances are good that I would find someone else to settle down with and not end up the crazy cat lady. But the flip side of that coin is wondering if someone out there is better than the someone at home. I think I have a bit of the grass-is-greener syndrome.
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
Hi all- Well had a nice weekend with friends in NYC. I feel like I've made a lot of gains in GAL, PMA, etc. I definitely do still get sad (as a matter of fact got another good cry in last night) but it feels less desperate and scary than before.
But I am hitting a weird place. Thinking about what I want life to be like after this all, and thinking that i'll be ok. And yet I do still feel in limbo. H and I are still married, he has not recently made any mention of filing, yet has his own apt downtown and started new job. Am I staying here for him? No, not in the short-term..I had planned/wanted to stay through YE anyway, busy w work and travels and making new friends, plus not here all that much anyway. But come 3-4 months from now, yes I'll be moving on thinking about SF or possibly even NYC for a short time, where I have more friends in both cities. However, I don't want to move while we are still in limbo. This may seem silly, but if we're going to end things I'd rather do that now while I'm here, than deal with this long distance...if there is ever a chance to reconcile, i'd rather do it here too.
I guess I just want him to level with me...in a way I want to have this talk, but I am scared to bring it up. I have not let his lack of initiative stop me from living my life, I am still going out, thinking of/starting to date, putting myself out there. Do I still love him? Yes. Would I still give anything for him to want to go to counseling or retro or anything to help us? Yes. But I've accepted that he's just not there. There's all this talk in DB - and I get it - about how it's not helpful to bring up R talks...just be upbeat and happy and let them do that. And I get it. And I also feel since H moved out, he's the one that should carry this through to completion if he no longer wants to be with me. Is he a total coward? Does he just not want to feel guilty? So much, I know.
What hurts me more than this marriage ending in many ways is his walking out without an iota of trying. Does he ever think of the good times? And yet I know I cannot change him, only myself. And some of my health problems have recently come back and it makes me miss H even more b/c he knew of and was a great support for me in that respect at one time. In some ways it makes the venturing out to dating even more daunting.
Pearl - i laughed aloud about your mention of crazy cat lady...yes that is a hidden fear i have as well! (and a term i've used before!)
When to just get so fed up with this and move on myself...and do I even want to? There is some weird comfort in the limbo, and fear of the unknown...and i don't know moving will 'solve problems' anyway (in terms of healing and unease i feel over all of this) but in some ways, i feel stuck. Some days more than others, on the whole, i feel better and come along way than months ago. When does one know when they need to take the bull by the horns and make things happen if H is too much of a coward (and again, not that i want him to file..I'd much much rather have him come home)?
I just pray and hope that good will come, than all will work out one way or another.
I don't know that it's exactly the opposite of DBing, but there is the route espoused by gucci, robx, and others:
YOU become the WAS.
Why do you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you? Why would you waste your fabulous self on someone who doesn't appreciate you to the fullest?
Read up on what gucci advises people to do.
As much as I wanted to make BF pull the trigger on breaking up and all that entails, I got fed up and decided his being a coward was infringing upon my life. So I kicked him out and got the ball rolling.
Also read Dobson's book Love Must Be Tough. I can't stand Dobson's FOTF organization but this is a good read.
No matter how it turns out in the end, you will feel good that you did everything you could to salvage the R and you banish the fear by taking action to do what is best for you.
If you love somebody, set them free. http://tinyurl.com/2empx2g
Hi Friends, I hope everyone is having a nice Sunday so far! I've been doing ok/fine...getting used to being on my own more and more I guess. Busy traveling w work, going out w friends a lot, going dancing, being social, having fun. Went out to a club Fri w some girlfriends and had a blast, but yes, still end of night come home missing my husband - having someone - and him, specifically - to come home to. For some reason this particular venue and music reminded me of when we first started dating, and how fun he was and wonderful w all of our mutual friends in common, going out together. I guess these memories will come and go for awhile. Sometimes they are positive and nostalgic about 'old H', sometimes I feel angry and bitter and 'new H' and the person he has become.
Was in SF last weekend, feeling mellow out there. I have decided that I need to start getting my move in order...I cannot stay here indefintely on the east coast in his world. I've been trying to figure out do we get things in progress beforehand, or do I move first w unfinished business here (i.e. we're sitll married), but I think I need to start thinking more realistically about both. I've been feeling more angry lately, about the fact that he's been out of our home for 1 year exactly, and basically moved on to a totally different life with hardly any contact. I've been frustrated, wanting to contact him so we can 'deal' w our situation, but wanting him to initiate.
He finally did email this week, simple nice email asking again, as he tends to do "what's my schedule like across next couple weeks" but then doesn't propose anything. At this point, we need to meet, we need to deal w this situation (as an aside, I have finally gotten guys to call 2 lawyers and a mediator to prepare and educate myself about this process). So I told him busy during week but around next weekend. No response. I will email him in a couple days to see if next Sunday works. Yes, maybe it's me initiating but I'm gone 3 weeks after, then it's Xmas and i'll be in CA through mid-Jan...we've gotta have a face to face in my opinion and I want some answers. If we're going through w this process, how should we proceed.
Which begs another issue. I guess I'm feeling bitter. I have supported him fully last 2 years while he's been in school, and prior to that I definitely contributed more to household. I've been working about 80 hrs/week these past 7-8 years we've been together. So now I'm feeling, gosh, it would be nice for ME to go back to school and have him support/contribute, or be able to be home more...yes I could scale back but it would mean change in lifestyle...meanwhile he'll be making big bucks across next few years. BUT I don't want to get ugly, and frankly I'm not interested in coming after him for $$ (I would much rather have him go to counseling, even if this ends), and my primary concern has been protecting my own assets so he doesn't think he can come after any of my savings. I do feel he wants to be amicable and civil about this and walk away each w what is our own (which some lawyers have told me I should consider that a win, and just focus on rebuilding me life)...and I do think from an emotional/healing perspective, that's definitely more the right call, than having some nasty drag out fight. I don't want that.
Nonetheless, it's forcing me to think hard about my life and if I want to keep of this pace of my work (which I'm sure has been hard in and of itself on our marriage...i would give that up in a heartbeat to work on us, and he knows that, but that's an aside)...as for now I do need to keep it since i'm the only one supporting myself, need the income/insurnace etc and bills ahead w move, etc. My mom keeps saying 'well who's gonna pay lawyer/mediator fees' as if H should (since he was the one that left and wanted the D) but I don't think it matters. It's not the $ that I even care about, it's the prinicple...but hey, I keep telling myself, life isn't fair sometimes. Just do what's ethically the most right thing, still try to have compassion for him (if I can), and focus on self and building things back up again.
I know it's a process. I know there are other fish in the sea. The positive memories from the past sometimes just overcome me. Like when in SF last weekend, I was feeling really good and happy, and part of me felt 'gosh, the only thing that would really take me to the next level would be H'... and it wasn;t a place of need it was a place of already being content w myself and wanting him in the picture as well (which is opposite of when we first met, I was feeling a little vulnerable and he was my 'savior' in some ways). The irony is I've done so much self-work across this past year and am such a stronger person, and more fun too like I used to be...I'm more the woman my husband was initially attracted to and it's just too late. Timing.
So we'll meet next Sunday. I'd welcome any suggestions but don't know if it's worth playing the 'don't initiate R discussions'-DB theme again since I've been doing this for months and nothing has changed. I think it may be time to switch gears. I need to be direct and strong, yet still would like him to sit down w a 3rd party w me (counselor, retreat), yet doubtful about his willingness. The one way I think it would/could help tremendously is that we need to COMMUNICAte regardless as we go through this process - even of ending - and it's hard if we can't even do that.
I rarely post to newcomers because I am a veteran of this site (3 years) and sometimes my "tainted" views are not what the doctor ordered for newcomers. You have been at this for a year and your H is in another city so I don't have to walk on eggshells. I have not read all your sitch (just the last post). I can not tell you how to act or what to say during your upcoming meeting. Nobody can....I have been there (most of us have). The sad truth is that you are correct, TIMING has alot to do with it. There are certain times when there is absolutelly nothing you can do to penetrate the WAS. They are in their own little world. This may be your H's case. There may still be hope for your marriage...know and accept that the percentages are low....but like the rest of us you think you you are going to be part of the success stories. I hope you are. I guess what I am saying is this is a very long process, you absolutelly need to protect yourself (financially and emotionally). I wish you luck... but above all i wish you have the strength to find happiness with or without your H in your life.
John - thank you for your kind thoughts. I'm trying to roll with it all, as best I can, and have detached to some extent...I am very busy w work and social plans and there are days that I don't think too much about H anymore.
That said - and I welcome any/all advice, although I also no there is no necessary right/wrong and no silver bullet. I just don't know how to approach this stuff myself. Sometimes I feel better when i'm just living my life and not thinking about confronting H. At the same time, we've been separated for 1 year now and had very minimal contact these past 4-5 months. He's settled into his new apt and new job. I've been going on a few dates and out having fun, living my life as much as I can as a happy single person, and trying to stay positive. Would I prefer H be back in my life? Yes, of course, but know I can't control him.
That said, we don't have any meeting set up again. Do I try to set up time for us to get together to 'talk' myself? Or do I just keep doing my thing and healing and let him do it? (He was one walked out on our marriage, but I get sense he's waiting for me to take action).
I keep thinking about what Pearl said awhile ago: "how would you envision your life without H?" And I'd move back to CA across next few months, get settled there w my job (company just opened office there), set up w resources in terms of counselor and friends and all, support-system. But it is darn hard to plan a full-on move cross country still in limbo-land. I wonder sometimes if I do it, or if I don't and force conversation in advance, if that will change anything w H?
I do remember early DR/MWD advice about first step is dissolving negative feelings and then starting up w friendship again. Our last few conversations/interactions have been quite civil and even enjoyable/friendly....so part of me wonders about keeping up this momentum...could that ever lead to something more again? So I don't want to jump ship before giving that a full chance, at the same time, he hasn't been a H to me in the past year (and I see objectively what his 'beef' was w me and the relationship and I gave grown in so many ways).
If we don't see each other this weekend then I'm gone for 3 weeks and almost Xmas...and I'm wondering if I should drag this out into next year? At the same time if I initiate a meeting and discuss where we stand/next steps, I am almost certain that he'll just say the same thing, that he wants D. This is where I see that DB is about stopping a divorce (none has happened yet), but does that mean tiddly-squat if it doesn't rebuild a marriage and just prolong the inevitable. However, I partially want to avoid it b/c I have fun things planned across the next month and in sometimes status quo might be better than dealing w the emotional fallout of this really, truly, ending. Yet if it's going to happen I should just deal w it now, no?
If he is 100% done with me I'd rather get on and start rebuilding my life. But I don't want to be premature either. Yes he hasn't shown me one indication in past year that he wants to work on this...and pressing the point again may push D.. but then again, if that so easily would push towards D wouldn't it just happen anyway?
I really struggle w pushing the point w H or not. Help!
I have a deadline to meet but will come back later and read your whole thread. My advice (thanks for the compliment) is really just a replay of my experience with my WAS and what I have learned over the past 21 months. It doesn't apply to everybody and how I chose to handle things might not work for anybody else but I always figure I will throw it out there even on the off chance it sparks an idea for somebody.
My H and I have been legally separated now for a full 48 hours and he texted me last night (I did not respond) and e-mailed me first thing when he got to work. I mentioned I was low on time as I had to make a car repair and he said "I want to help you but I know you will never let me help you or be there for you". I told him no thanks, I learned to it myself. I told him I had some paperwork to mail him and he wanted to come over to get it. I said "we'll see" as I am very busy this week and next. Then he wanted to know when I would let him know if he should come over. I could spend more than 5 seconds wondering why NOW he is sad I don't want/need his help and why he wants to make a trip ALL the way downtown to get papers that can easily be put in the mail but what is the point? He wanted out - he is out but SO AM I! Let him help his GF, I have better things to do then let him feel like the hero NOW. Have mercy.
I wasn't in limbo really - I just decided I wasn't going to do H's dirty work so I went about my business.
Do you have fun Halloween plans?