Over the Shock and GALing 6

[d1adsl5a]

I do. I have yet to figure out how to include the "my sitch" link. Any suggestions..

[givingitmyall]

I do. I have yet to figure out how to include the "my sitch" link. Any suggestions..

Go to the "My Stuff" pull down up top. Select "Edit Profile". Now, look for the box with your signature. In that box paste the link to your thread. Usually, you need to go to tinyurl.com first to compress the link to your thread so it will fit in your signature block.

[d1adsl5a]

Probably just easier to recap what has happened:
-Married 15 years, together about 20.
InMay she comes home and says she is not sure she wants to be married anymore. The reasons:

I am controlling with money
--she finally agreed to pay bills and now understands we can't spend $5k monthly on visa, plus private school, mortgage...
She is not in love with me anymore
--These feelings supposedly started 10 years ago
she was alone when I went to grad school in 1998. I was driven to success too much
--grad school was part time, I finished in 1998. I used to get home from work at 6:30.
Didn't help much when kids were under a year old
--you got me on this one. she is right. I am much better when they can walk and talk.
I married you because my father approved
--Her dad is off the boat italian, very traditional
she says I stopped wanting to go out alot
--I had horrible insomnia the year before the bomb dropped. Not much support from her other than tough love. Hard to go out when you hadn't slept in two days. The insomnia stopped once the bomb was dropped. Looks like my body was telling me something
She has done all the MLC things: Goes out most weekends till 3am, drinks alot, tattoo on the buttocks, brand new wardrobe that I paid for, works out all the time, talks alot with exboyfriends,(actually texted one that I love you, I have loved you for last 20 years). She tells me that she meant to add as a friend..
--Do I have idiot written across my forehead. If it wasn't a physical affair, it sure the hell was an emotional one. She is very good looking. And she is going out in a new cougar outfit every weekend(she stopped wearing the wedding ring in June).

She blames me for becoming this person she is today. She doesn't like who she is. Wants to go back to the person she was before we were married. The one thing we never had which we have discussed is good communication. She yelled, I placated, she runs into the room and locks door. Next day fight was over. This would happen every 6-9 months throughout our marriage. I just never wanted to probe or open up pandora's box. I will own up to that one.

She has stopped seeing my family when this started.

She had cancelled marital counseling after 3 sessions in May, cancelled retrouville in October. I have made all the changes she requested. She says that you have done everything she could every want, but--I get the too little too late..She says she can't get divorced yet until she saves up enough money. She finally got a job(she was a stay at home mom). Her friends(except the single/divorced ones) thinks she is crazy. Maybe so. She is on a strong antidepressant. she blames me for her taking them because she was trying to mask her feelings five years ago. It wasn't because she has such a bad temper that everyone including her family are afraid to confront her on anything.

All that said, she is a good mom. She seems to think divorce will be amicable with us buying houses right next to each other. I have to remind her that I am not her friend, will never be and as our Marriage Counselor agreed, you are in la la land if you think I could be happy living next to you.

So now I am supposed to sit and wait for her to save up money to divorce me--

I have been doing all the DBing things. I have been happy, mysterious, you name it... I work out every day for my therapy in addition to seeing a therapist. However, some weeks I am done acting and just ignore her. This is one of those weeks.I just want it to be done. Just want to be whole and happy again. I have become more of the nurturing parent to our sons. So custody is the big discussion. I want the kids half the month. She thinks that is too much...We'll see how that one ends.

[Thinker]

Just a thought - inspired by some of the posts I have read around here. It's not that original - I have read bits and pieces of it in several books, other threads, etc. but I am putting it together because it has become more clear in my own mind.

---

You Grieve the end of a R, the end of a M, just like you grieve a death. There are phases and a process that each person goes through: Shock and Denial, Bargaining, Anger, Depression and Acceptance. By studying and working on yourself, you can minimize the negative impacts of each phase, but you still have to go through them, and you have to go through them in your own time. You can't skip ahead.

Shock and Denial: We all know this one. It is clear in my first post and in those of most of the others I read. "I can't believe it", "My spouse does spend a lot of time with this OP at work, but he/she says they are just friends", "I never thought this would happen", "Maybe he/she will change his/her mind"

Bargaining: We are sure that if we only work hard enough and change enough, then we can can get our WAS back, so we keep trying and trying and trying. I think for most of this here, this phase has 2 incarnations:

• Bargaining Part I - Pursuit: The initial begging, arguing, persuading, apologizing and general groveling that we each did at first.
• Bargaining Part II - Tactical DBing: I think this is where many of us get stuck for a long time. (I know I sure did) DBing itself becomes a way of bargaining. If I do this DBing stuff hard enough, well enough, and for long enough, then I will win my WAS back. The issue here is that, although we may be making all of the right moves and saying all of the right things, our heart really is not in it. Our focus is still firmly fixed to the WAS. Even when we focus on ourselves, we are often focusing on ourselves in order to win the WAS back.

The bargaining phase can last a long time, especially if the LBS DB's well enough to stall the "walk away". In these cases it ends in limboland, and limboland just prolongs the bargaining phase.

The bargaining phase ends only when the LBS has reached his or her emotional and patience limit, and no longer has any tolerance for DBing as a tactic. He or she no longer wants to try and gives up.

This leads to (in some order, depending on the sitch) Anger and Depression.

Anger: Man, I got hit hard by this one. Surprised the hell out of me. When you give up trying to bargain, now all of the pent up emotions come out. Although this is a necessary phase, it is also the most destructive. I also think it is easy for this to turn into toxic resentment and many people get stuck here as well.

Note that in the Anger phase, the LBS's attention is STILL firmly on the WAS. At this point you will hear many posters say that now they are finally so angry and disgusted that they have become detached. This isn't detached. The WAS is still driving your emotions. The LBS is, however, finally backing off.

Depression: Just tired. I give up. I don't want to try any more. This isn't a pleasant phase, but note the turn that is happening. FINALLY, the LBS's attention shifts away from the WAS. At this point their attention is just not anywhere - not on themselves either.

Acceptance: Yea! Hip Hi Hooray! This is what we are all trying to reach, and what many of us claim to reach all the time. The LBS's focus is finally on themselves, and they can think clearly and make decisions about what they need. Now they can finally walk either the D path, or the R path, or both simultaneously without caring which will be the outcome.

The hard truth is, however, that you can't get here without going through the other 4 phases.

[Thinker]

Hi d1adsl5a,

I know how you feel. I really do.

I think I can imagine quite a bit of your sitch without even reading into it (probably just projecting myself) but I can see my sitch in a lot of what you write.

Take a look at what I just posted (above) on the Grief phases. Based on your two posts, I would put you alternating between depression and anger right now. I'm just guessing, but your first post sounded depressed a bit ("I'm Tired of...") while this one reads a bit angry and resentful.

The good news is that this means you are progressing. The bad news is... you probably have to see these phases through as well.

You can use the anger and resentment to get you out of your sitch and your m now. Many people do. They will energize you right through the D process.

...or, since your W is not running out the door, you can work through them while married, get to acceptance, and then decide what you want to do. This is not to imply that a decision made in acceptance will be one to stay in the M - not the point at all.

For reasons specific to my own sitch, I decided to stay, work through the anger, get out of the depression, and spend some time working on myself. The net result may be the same - I'll likely get D'd, and the sitch is the same - my W and I are sleeping in separate rooms and spending time apart, but the feeling is completely different. The separation and space are now because I wanted them and I asked for them so that I could spend some time learning to be happy without being in a R.

I can't give you any general advice, but I do have a few comments on your post:

The reasons:

I am controlling with money...
She is not in love with me anymore
she was alone when I went to grad school in 1998. I was driven to success too much
Didn't help much when kids were under a year old
I married you because my father approved
she says I stopped wanting to go out alot

I think you know by now that much of this is script. I get / got the same things.

There is something in there, however. Have you spent the time and effort (and pain) to really look into why you are controlling about money (You probably are, I was), why you are so driven to successs, etc.? You seem to dismiss them as being wrong because she is saying them, but there are probably some things that you really should fix FOR YOU.

She has done all the MLC things: Goes out most weekends till 3am, drinks alot, tattoo on the buttocks, brand new wardrobe that I paid for, works out all the time, talks alot with exboyfriends,(actually texted one that I love you, I have loved you for last 20 years). She tells me that she meant to add as a friend..
--Do I have idiot written across my forehead. If it wasn't a physical affair, it sure the hell was an emotional one. She is very good looking. And she is going out in a new cougar outfit every weekend(she stopped wearing the wedding ring in June).

Red Flags Red Flags Red Flags

Is there an A in your sitch? If so, you should KNOW whether there is or not. I don't mean learn and follow the gruesome details, I mean know whether something is going on. It makes a big difference.

She blames me for becoming this person she is today. She doesn't like who she is. Wants to go back to the person she was before we were married.

Script

The one thing we never had which we have discussed is good communication. She yelled, I placated, she runs into the room and locks door. Next day fight was over. This would happen every 6-9 months throughout our marriage. I just never wanted to probe or open up pandora's box. I will own up to that one.

This seems pretty typical of many sitch's here. My M was pretty similar. It's a killer. The issue is also that when you placate, she loses respect for you. Nice Guy placating and avoiding the arguments is what we learned as kids, but it doesn't work for us now.

She had cancelled marital counseling after 3 sessions in May, cancelled retrouville in October.

is there an A?

I have made all the changes she requested. She says that you have done everything she could every want, but--I get the too little too late..

It's not about the changes. She doesn't want you to make the changes because she doesn't want to rethink her decision.

She says she can't get divorced yet until she saves up enough money. ...

... she blames me ...

...It wasn't because she has such a bad temper that everyone including her family are afraid to confront her on anything.

She seems to think divorce will be amicable with us buying houses right next to each other.

Actually all pretty typical cake eating, avoidance of responsibility, addiction to blame, and avoidance of reality.

You can't do ANYTHING about any of this. If she is going to get past it it is because she decides to. The only thing you can do is (as you seem to be) continue to calmly stand up for yourself and keep turning the focus back to reality.

So now I am supposed to sit and wait for her to save up money to divorce me--

Don't wait.

This is a quandary that many of us have reached. It is based on the false premise that "I can only be happy if I am in a good R". Therefore, if I were D'd, I would be out looking for my next R, and therefore if I am in a Bad R that can't be fixed, I am waiting for it to end so that I can be out looking for my next R so that I can be happy.

Stop waiting. I am not saying stop waiting and get a D, or stop waiting and go find another R. I am saying stop waiting and just go be happy.

Think on it a bit.

I have been doing all the DBing things. I have been happy, mysterious, you name it... I work out every day for my therapy in addition to seeing a therapist.

This is what I meant by "Bargaining through DB". It sounds for example, like you were being happy to try to get her back, rather than being happy to be happy.

However, some weeks I am done acting and just ignore her. This is one of those weeks.I just want it to be done. Just want to be whole and happy again.

Resignation. Depression Phase.

I have become more of the nurturing parent to our sons. So custody is the big discussion. I want the kids half the month. She thinks that is too much...We'll see how that one ends.

Fight for what you want and deserve. Joint custody is not unreasonable, and her maintaining full custody of the kids is just one more fantasy balloon that will have to be punctured.

----

Good Luck d1adsl5a.

Stay in touch. You'll make it.

[d1adsl5a]

Stop thinker, just stop...

You are making too much sense. I would agree, that I am at the anger phase on my way to the depression part. On my drive home from work, I jsut feel the stress and anger build up the closer I get to home. I would agree I am not detached. I came home tonight and just couldn't look her in the eye. I am angry that she was a coward and couldn't tell me that she had these feelings years ago. I am angry that she had more children with me while she had these feelings. I am angry that she is hurting our sons by doing this. They had the most innocent lives 7 months ago. I am angry that I will only get to see my sons 50% of the time. I am angry that I am supposed to wait for her to save money to divorce me.

In my heart, I don't think anything physical happened. There was definitely an emotional affair. I do believe whatever was going on has ended. I have confronted her on several occasions, she has denied every time. I guess in the end, it doesn't matter, the feelings of an EA and PA are roughly the same.

Was I controlling with money, maybe a little. I grew up with my dad making 35k a year and my mom cleaning houses.--I make $180k a year and we live check to check. We have one of college education paid for and two others 50% done. When I met her, all her credit cards work maxed out and she had smashed her second car bought by her father. He even gave her a Shell gas card. She went from his house to my house. So now she is trying to prove she can make it on her own. She never really understood what it takes everyday to live the lifestyle we have...

You know it is funny about the placate bit. You are right, i did back down quite often. A week ago, I didn't back down to her rage and anger. She looked at me with the devil eyes and I said hit me if you are going to hit me. And she did(in front of my oldest son). First time in 20 years. She had been drinking, and I told her to stop playing rock band at 8:45 at night with my other sons because I was studying with my other son who is struggling in school. I realize this situation i am in reads like a soap opera. Never, Never in my wildest dreams could I have predicted this mess.

You are so right regarding her rethinking her decisions. I have become everything she could have wanted. She has said as much. But you can't make them love you again and you can't fix them.

You are right about wanting the next relationship. It is something I think about often. You just miss that closeness with someone. I am very close with my sons and we do so much together. In fact, I am now running all their schedules for sports and she is asking me everyday where they need to be. There has been alot of role reversal. However, that realtionship is not the same. I do need more. Maybe it is because I haven't been with out a girlfriend since I have been 14 years old. Just a need I have always had...

Hope is my enemy. Indifference is my friend. I just hope this phase passes. It is exhausting being angry.

[givingitmyall]

d1adsl5a,

Thinker gave you some great advice. Really spend some time pondering it. My sitch is very similar to yours and Thinkers. So, I could have written much of what you wrote.

Focus on Thinker's suggestion of just being happy being you. This is a critical element to recovery. And if it is not "repaired," you may find another relationship, but the same issues will follow you.

I, too, thought I had made progress when I could say I accepted that my W wants a D, b/c I would go out and find the next Mrs. GIMA. But, that overlooked one key issue: relying on someone else to make me happy. And that is no one's responsibility but MINE. Otherwise, I will always end up disappointed, hurt or angry.

Most of us men believe we have to have a woman in our lives. Well, we don't. It can be a want, but it is not a NEED.

I have followed your posts, and will continue to do so. Let yourself grieve over the loss of your M (the old M). Unfortuantely, you have to go through that to get to the next part. But, it WILL get better. Grieve, but keep walking towards that next phase.

[Thinker]

d1adsl5a,

I really caution you to watch the anger. It feels good, and it is a relief to be angry rather than feeling stepped on, but although you would never believe it, it CAN turn abusive. Especially if she is combative and abusive already.

If you think your sitch is bad now, just imagine how it would be if one night you were really angry, she got combative and hit you, you pushed back...

...and the next week she had a restraining order removing you from your house and keeping you away from her and the boys.

It can happen. Don't let it.

You can't keep anger inside. You can't suppress it.

The only way to deal with it is to feel it AND THEN replace it with compassion. There are ways to do this (look up HEALS).

You have to get to the point where you can feel compassion for your w, and still keep your distance and your boundaries in place to protect yourself. You have to understand 2 countering points:

1) what your w is doing is wrong and hurtful to you. You have to keep your boundaries in order to protect yourself from this. This is your responsibility, not hers.

2) Your w is not doing this to hurt you. She is doing this because she is in pain and she does not know what else to do. She does not think she has a choice.

You can feel compassion for the pain she is in, while still not condoning the actions or letting yourself get hurt by them.

[Thinker]

Just an update:

Alone with the boys since w left to visit her mother yesterday. It's been busy, without much time to think.

I am not a stranger to caring for the boys, but am getting a good firsthand look at my w's weekday routine.

Officially, took vacation so I could care for the boys while Mrs. T is gone, but in reality I have too many hot projects going on at work, so I am running around with my blackberry in my hand and trying to sneak calls in during naptime. Yesterday I bribed S7 to play with S1 (and keep him out of trouble) for an hour so I could attend a critical meeting by telephone.

I want to find some time for myself during the next few days. My personal goals for the immediate future are to do some more reading, find a new IC, finish the D-preparation financial analysis I have been doing (asset vaues now vs when we got married), and schedule a consultation with a L. I am forming a list of questions I want to have answered prior to any mediation sessions.

I haven't brought up mediation or D with my w in a few weeks. With what is going on with her mom, I'm not sure she would be capable of thinking rationally about our m, and I also don't want to add one more problem to her burden right now. It can wait.

[Gardener]

2) Your w is not doing this to hurt you. She is doing this because she is in pain and she does not know what else to do. She does not think she has a choice.

Almost always true. And tough to keep in mind through our own hurt and anger.

Keeping this in my thoughts "My dear friend is 'extremely confused and in a tremendous amount of pain,'"(her sister's words to me early on), helped me cope and stay focused.