I was away for a bit. Wasn't sure of what to make of my feelings and all the things they're bringing. But as my dear twin optimist pointed out, instead of hiding in my shell, maybe it's actually better to come up here, and both get new perspectives of what I'm feeling just by writing, but also hear - or rather "read" - fresh ideas, insight...
I'm not even sure why I'm so gloomy. After all nothing really changed in my situation. ( as a recap, we've been married for 21 years, husband had an affair 5 years ago with a coworker. Wanted to leave, but never did, we were able to work on our marriage he moved on into another job and I thought we would be happy ever after. Last year I found out he was having another affair again with a coworker. As a side note, and curiosity - but not justification - both affairs were initiated by the women - I do have proof of this - which together with other facts, leed us to the conclusion that he will not start an affair, but had trouble refusing one that is offered. In any case, this last affair went for almost one year on an off, after we talked several times - I found about both affairs right as they started - and he was having serious trouble ending it. FInally last June he quit his job - second time he had to do this and for the same reason - and the affair was over. )
Well, it is over. I have no doubts of that. That is not what is troubling me. However I am having more trouble with the whole situation this time around and I don't even know why - well I guess one reason will be because it happened a second time. That's a no brainer. But it goes beyond that. I'm feeling empty somehow.Maybe I'm actually oversensitive because of all that happened. I usually am able to analize and rationalize things so well and this time I don't seem to be able to do it.
WHat am I complaining, really? DOn't even know. H is home, says he wants to grow old with me. That didn't want to hurt me and wished it had never happened. He massages my back to sleep, gets up 1 hour earlier to be able to take me to work before he goes to work, spends all his free time with us and shows he's enjoying that time.... Do I really have a reason to be feeling like this? Well, at the same time he seems to be a different person. He changed quite a bit since his first affair. He became a harder person, ready to judge and criticize. Too ready! Yes, I have been having a great time.. but that great time usually comes with a sting. He's ready to explode for things that are minimal. And tends to get grumpy on me, even if whatever is bothering him had nothing to do with us. He acknowledges this and sometimes apologizes, sometimes uses humor to deflect it, like joking that if he doesn't take it on me what good his marriage for. Still, it does come with the sting. THIngs tend to be wonderful if life treats us well, if there are no problems and all goes well. HOwever, if something goes wrong, if life throws us a curve or work didn't go well, suddenly wonderful is not wonderful anymore. And I'm the one that seems to be blamed for all the negative things that happen! His mistakes are minimized, mine seem to be seen trough a magnifying glass. It actually feels like he's looking for me to make any mistakes so he can point them out.And I am not perfect. NObody is. So I also make mistakes. Maybe I'm wrong here, but at this moment I don't think he should be spending much time looking at my mistakes... it seems to me that having two affairs, lying about them, showing little committment and responsability for his actions rates a bit higher on the list than if I forgot to put the garbage out, or gave the wrong food to the dogs ( puppy to older dog, and older dog food to puppy ), or even that the house was messy last weekend - let's even forget who helped make the mess, we will have plenty to discuss there!!! -. I don't know, maybe it's me, but I really think it was a good time to just let it pass if we consideer his own "mistkes". ALthough he denies this.. he tells me that I'm completely wrong, but our relationship seems to be "lukewarm" for him. He's fine with it, but no big thing. He seems to have trouble with empathy. It's difficult for him to put himself in someone's shoes and because of that it's difficult for him to completely regret what he did, because he isn't able to have a glimpse of my pain. So although he regrets it in principle, because his values tell him that it was wrong, he cannot really understand how much he hurt me. We were talking about the affair some time ago, and I came up with what seemed to me a good way to help him understand how much it hurt - well it seemed like a good idea -by asking him how he would feel if I came home one day and find out I was having an affair. I guess it wasn't the best example because his first words were " But you wouldn't have an affair, so how can I imagine it?" " I tried again, explaining that just as an exercize let's pretend I would, "how would you feel?" Nothing.. nada....zero! at least that's what it looked like from my side. EVen when after some minutes consideration he came up with a lame" Well... I guess maybe I would be upset" Maybe???? Not sure yet? Maybe i'm expecting too much.But he ended the affair because he wanted to. It's not like I or anyone else made him end it. He was the one who told me he wanted our marriage, didn't want to leave us and wanted to grow old with me. SO yes.. I was expecting a bit more than "lukewarm" right now. Sometimes it feels like things are reversed. He was the one who messed up, but I am the one who's being judged. ANd by him no less!I don't think he's in the best position to pass judgement right now. He tells me there are no problems in our marriage. We talked about that and covered each area. He claims he has no idea how he let himself get into this situation again. He just got into it, and then was having trouble getting out of it. Ok I can understand that. But then why did it happen? I don't know... ramblings... that's all, but I certainly don't feel completely fulfilled in my marriage right now. I'm craving emotional support and i'm not really having any because of his inability to feel what I feel. SUddenly I feel myself getting detached , yes I still want this marriage, yes I still love my husband, and yes I"m ready to forgive, but at the same time, it seems that I'm hiding in my shell more and more, maybe afraid of being hurt again. Sorry about all the ramblings... THere's so much in my mind right now H It's like my twin optimist said:
" He has lied so much and for so long that I do not even know what is true and what is false any more. And I fear that lying has become second nature to him (or perhaps it always was) and I have changed all I could change. I am so tired... " ANyway, it's a bit late and I have a busy day tomorrow. Hope you all are having a better time, less confusing. Hugs nightshade
"Each and every one of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought and the gift of understanding. "
Hi I don't have a lot to say - but I share your mood tonight. For me, it is a lot about my expectations. Disappointment is so often expectations that haven't been lived up to. Not unreasonable expectations though I think - I agree, if they recommit to marriage surely we deserve more than lukewarm? Or in my case a wall of silence?
Maybe its back to "start with a beginners mind". A good nights sleep usually works miracles too!
Reading your post I began to wonder. What if he's picking at you so much, because he's so upset with himself? Is it possible he's projecting all his critizisms on you?
I wonder if he's numb to the pain because it's too much too handle?
Just some thoughts.
Have you tried Phoenix's strategy? Everytime he critizes you, give him a really big kiss.
She told him she was going to do it each time he did x, he was astonished she'd kiss him for doing something she didn't like...but she followed through and x stopped happening.
I was thinking exactly the same thing, PnT. Impatience, chronic anxiety and anger at the betrayed S are well described coping mechanisms of unfaithful partners. The greater the anger, the lesser the guilt. Check out 'After the Affair' again, twin.
And I love Phoenix's strategy. I might even copy it
"You don't throw a whole life away just 'cause it's banged up a little"
Tom Smith in "Seabiscuit"
Thank you all for your answers:) I think I'm feeling a bit better now. I don't usually stay down for long, but maybe I was a bit depressed too.
pnt and twin I do understand the idea. I suppose I was just tired of having it happening LOL The kiss idea seems like a very creative way of trying to break a pattern. I usually call it the "no because I'm an onion" thing because of a story our professor told us once . Same idea, come up with the most improbable answer to something and it does work most times. I'm not sure my husband would allow me to kiss him while he was on a big tirade about how I messed up, but I've tried quite a few different versions of that before LOL Still it's he's copping mechanism I know that. He's actually good at the "attack is the best defence" thing too LOL I guess I was just really wanting not to be responsible for all bad stuff that happens to us at least for a bit so I could rest. But it gave me the blues bad. Today I took my own advice and got out my scrap book with all the good stuff happening since the affair was over. It did help out and brightned the day. Maybe it helped too that he had been noticing that I was down and even a bit detached and tried to control the irritability a bit more. I guess it's not helping much that our finances are a mess and it will take a bit to fix them again. In a way it was nice that he did quit his job so he wouldn't be in touch with her at all, but it left us without a budget and with many unpaid bills. We'll fix this though.. we did it before. I"m going beddy bye now, but will be back tomorrow, with a smile.. I'm recharged now Hugsies nigthshade
"Each and every one of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought and the gift of understanding. "
Welcome back...good update. Glad to hear you're feeling more PMA right now, but I thought I'd respond to your earlier post.
I think the reasons for your feelings of late are very understandable. Although things seem good, H is back, A is over, he's trying....I THINK there's a big part of you that would like for him to REALLY GET what he's done to you and your M.
I, too have harboured such feelings, although CJ is far more empathetic than your H appears to be.
His dogging you for stupid stuff seems petty and I can sense your palpable irritation that he has the NERVE to gripe about such when HE's committed far more grave acts to harm your M.
I'm interested that you say that this side of him emerged after A #1? Because CJ played the role of more or less happy H until the sh!t hit the fan in our sitch...he's now more vocal about what displeases him...although in fairness it's usually about my sarcasm or irritability...some of the very things that contributed to his detachment from me.
I DO know that at first, he was MUCH more angry and short-tempered than he used to be, but now it's swung more towards assertiveness.
Back to YOU!!! ...I get the sense (and forgive me if I'm off base) that you two have not really talked about what contributed to his A's in the first place.
Seems like he's not that insightful or forthcoming on this? THAT would make me feel vulnerable too.
I also have to repeat that although you may not get this from your H any time soon...I really FEEL for your need to have H grasp the depth of the damage he's done, have some patience and kindness for you after all you've been through, after all the changes you've worked on.
Shiny you did get the right idea from all the confused ramblings.
I understand that wanting to go on like nothing ever happened is so common it's not even funny. ANd I know many of us are cooping - or trying to - with it as I am. But this happened with his first affair as well and see where it took us... to the second one!
Lack of empathy is not new with my h. I mean maybe I shouldn't be picking up on it too much because I could see that even before we got married. But hey , at that time I felt secure and confident. I didn't need the empathy or the emotional support the same way I do know, so maybe it seemed less important.
And yes, it would help a lot if I could see that he REALLY GOT IT. Not just because he learned that what he did wasn't the right thing to do. Not just because I told him it hurt. Not just because he read in some book it shouldn't have happened, or anything else like that. But because he really could understand and feel what his actions brought to this marriage. I guess maybe I am asking too much...
DId we talk about why it happened. Well yes.. extensively.. and no. Meaning exactly that LOL First affair we went trough this. Of course it took a long while to get him to be able to even talk about it without getting all his defences up, but he was able to finally come up with some things that might have been creating some week links in our marriage. Some of them valid in a way, some of them just excuses to justify what had happened. But we did talk and decided we needed to improve some areas in our relationship. We did too. We made sure that we always created some time for us as a couple - that had been lacking a bit with all the chaos going around at that time - many stress factors that were happening at the same time. We improved communication - or maybe I improved communication. We had agreed on talking about anything that was creating a problem as soon as we realized it so it wouldn't escalate, and I did. But come to think of it.. can't remember him coming up with anything. Still I felt confident things were really getting fixed and relationship was getting stronger that time precisely because we did discuss everything and worked out what could create a problem. This time... I don't even know. We did talk about it. He was able to talk about it right away as opposed to the firdt affair where it took him quite a few months until he was ok with discussing it. But other than hearing that he felt bad about what he did, and that he didn't want to go trough anything like that again , or that if he could make it so it would never have happened,there was nothing much. He claims there was nothing wrong with our marriage. That all his needs were beig fulfilled and that he was feeling fine with the marriage. That being home with us was pleasant and that he felt good being able to spend time with us. THat he enjoyed our weekends together - we used to do this before even the firs affair, but after it happened we made a point to do it regularly. Just go away for a weekend every other month. Only the two of us. -. All he says is that he has no idea how he fell for it, and then when it started he didn't know how to get out of that affair. It is true that he talked and wrote her emails ending the whole thing several times. He had no idea I knew about those emails or talks, so it wasn't being done for my benefit. But the truth is that after a few days or even weeks of a standstill, it always restarted. I know it was easy to do so. After all there were many hours of doing nothing during their work nights - or at least on his work nights, she as a nurse probably had more to do but still had time to take 3 hour breaks to be with him so who knows? Even in a big place, it's easy to concentrate in a spot.. the coffee shop that is open all night. And from there to start talking again.. and from there to go back the same path as he told her once ... I can see it happen, sure. A reason? What contributed to this affair? He can't come up with anything. There was some slight stress right as it started again due to financial problems but more of a minor glitch of having to wait 3 days for his check to be in the bank while we were camping. There was some serious stress when after being sick he was fearing ED - and that sue was a big thing for him, as it is for a big majority of men anyways. He's very impulsive as a rule and rarely thinks before he acts, but as we discussed once, impulsivity is ok when you're buying a shirt. Now when your actions bring serious consequences and when they affect other people there really is a need to think. Still all he can - or is willing to - say is that here he is going out for coffee in his break with a few people including this woman. Then noticing that they are having their coffee breaks alone. And then suddenly he's in the middle of an affair that - he says - he wasn't looking for and having trouble ending it. WHat contributed? He doesn't know - he says! -. It gets more complicated. He claims he was still enjoying our time together and having such a good time home. WHIle the affair is on, he's there asking me to go with him even for a 20 minute walk with our dogs, or to go watch the soccer games with him - which I love anyways so it wasn't a big deal for me -. He called me to meet him at work when he had meetings during the day- about once every two months -. He waxed my legs and shared a bubble bath. He never met her away from work and it was like during the day he was one person. Happy with his marriage and having a great time with his family. And at night when he went to work he would turn with a different person with a different life and an affair.
Yes.. it would be good to know what contributed to this affair, but I have no idea. And from what I get from him, neither does he.
IN several emails when she was asking him what his problems were - and getting frustrated because he was not telling her any, he told her that his marriage was not like hers. That his was not a bad marriage and he had a good relationshp with me. Does this help? Not really, then why? Or is this something like the Mount Everest thing.. just because it's there?
ANyways, thank you for the empathy, It felt good:)
Nightshade
"Each and every one of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought and the gift of understanding. "
Perhaps it comes down to that impulse control thing you mentioned. That and a touch of knowing when boundaries are being crossed.
Perhaps there really WASN'T anything direly wrong in your R this second time around. Scary thought!!!...But comforting too
It DOES put this squarely where it belongs...on your H's shoulders.
Perhaps what you need to discuss (rather than the seemingly cheeseless tunnel of why did this one happen) is how to MAKE SURE it never happens again!!
Some people are just vulnerable at certain stressful times in their lives....some people just seem to lack that radar that tells most of us when a "friendship" is becoming inappropriate.
Tal speaks to this issue very well. It seemed to have been a problem with her H too.
...I get the sense (and forgive me if I'm off base) that you two have not really talked about what contributed to his A's in the first place. 
