Question

[Lucky11too]

Oh, and good luck today with your new classes. Hope your throat is feeling better too.

[awest1217]

Thanks for the good wishes. My classes weren't too bad, but it was the first day. I have to continue being "mean" and not letting them get away with anything otherwise it will be a long trimester, especially with the large classes.

My throat held up, but now really hurts especially when I eat. It is more of a stabbing pain like something is stuck in my throat, probably swollen tonsils. No fever, or any other symptoms, which is good. My stomach is doing better and better. The dizziness is starting to decrease so dairy is my new friend, and I can't skimp so one crisis avoided. S still has a really stuffy nose which worries me because he has 1.5 weeks before tubes and a stuffy nose usually leads to an ear infection...fingers crossed

H text me last night saying at 10pm saying good night, and text me right after work saying "just wanted to say hi. hope you had a good day." Bah! He even added to my profile pic on facebook how he remembered when the pic was taken...uck (it was S's first Thanksgiving and the his first snow). It is my favorite pic of me and S together because of the snow falling all around us. Usually I would respond to the texts and say thanks hope you did too, but not going to. I am done with trying. I am not saying D yet, but I am tired of him wanting to be a "family" when it is convenient for him. I am honestly thinking about uninviting him to Thanksgiving at my grandma's. I probably won't, but I am not going to remind him either. I am not calling, answering texts, or answering phone calls until I feel better and have gained some strength back.

[Lucky11too]

That's so good that your stomach is doing better. That was sure scary! No good about the sore throat - I'm just getting over that too. I had a sore throat for a week (the swollen kind like you)! Blah. These poor S's though. I know its normal for kids to get sick, but it seems like it is never ending! Yeah, definitely hope S gets better before the tubes. Will they make you postpone it if he's sick?

I am done with trying. I am not saying D yet, but I am tired of him wanting to be a "family" when it is convenient for him...I am not calling, answering texts, or answering phone calls until I feel better and have gained some strength back.

I think your plan about basically going dark is good. You need this time to take care of yourself and H and not worrying about his texts and calls. If you can detach to that point, it's a good thing, but i know it can be difficult to follow thru on. I share your frustration on this - either chose to be a apart of this family and all that goes with it or not! No picking and chosing or just when it's convenient. Just like my H wants the sex part but not the committment part. Sorry, that's not the way it works. But just to recognize the small successes too, it's good that he continues to think about you and initiate contact and thoughtful messages. Now if we can just carry that success over to the weekends and continue to decrease the contact w/ OW...baby steps...

[awest1217]

Thanks Lucky, but this is what happened this summer. H is a master manipulator and will do anything to get what he wants. He wants OW for the sexual and gf parts of a relationship, while he wants me and S because I am loyal and we are the family side, the belonging side. I guess because of the dishonesty I have dealt with for 9 years, I am not even believing anymore the little texts he sends. The note last week and CD, those were true baby steps for H. The texts are just him trying to make sure I am still here and he can still jerk me around.

Like I said before, I may just be annoyed because of physical, emotional, and mental tiredness, plus sickness, but at the same time I am being realistic about how H is. He is a master manipulator and always has been so I have to always remember that or else...I will be hurt worse than ever before.

I still have hope that God can make a difference in H's life, but he has to be willing just like your H to be willing to change, and right now, although he knows what he is doing is wrong, he does not want to change because that would be sacrificing for his family and he doesn't want to do that.

[Lucky11too]

Oh yes, I get the manipulation. Our H's must have gone to manipulation school together. They'll say whatever they need to to make sure they can still control us and get what they want out of us. You - the week day and when convenient wife and me - the gratification and when convenient wife. I'm trying to look past this temporary 'status' with the hope that I'll be his all the time wife someday. Sometimes, like today, it looks bleak, but I'm trying to just continue to trust God's plan for my life, which I hope involves a 2x4 for H, but just really trying to stay strong. But like you said, we can't be naive either. We have to learn from the past or it's shame on us for getting hurt again. You're smart to have learned from this summer and not fall for his tricks again...but just continue to be on the lookout for any signs of baby steps. Sometimes it really just amazes and baffles me though...I know both of us would basically give our lives for our families, but yet these H's wont't even sacrifice a thing. It's sad. I can only pray that they figure out the awesome families they are missing out on (and take real action for it) before it's too late. Hope you had a good night. Any more texts from H?

[ClingingToHope]

Thanks for checking in on me. I hope the baby steps continue toward the adult step -- no more OW. Keep those school kids in line. Is the entire state of Indiana still in a state of euphoria since that Sunday night game.

I had the girls at the Dells, but we were in a suite so they could watch Disney Channel while I watched that fourth quarter of NE and Indy. Amazing.

[awest1217]

Yeah more texts...I decided to take a bath (although not relaxing because S will NOT give me any alone time. He is so worried and anxious even for a little bit if he can't see me). While in the bath, I hear my phone beep that I have a text. I knew it was from H and said in the bath, "I am not going to respond"...that is not what happened.

Here is what he sent, "hope you are having a good night so far. I'm sorry to keep bothering you, I just wanted to say hi. I'm assuming this is causing too many problems so I will stop. You said the other day we needed to be a united front against my mom, so I'll just txt you if she calls and asks about S. Have a good night."

That right away got me going and because I am weak I asked what that meant (the mom part is that H will tell her no about her taking S somewhere or to do something, and then she will ask me because she does not think we talk and I usually say yes because I did not know H said no. MANIPULATION!) H went on to say how since I did not respond to his previous texts that he thought they were a problem. I said how there was nothign to respond to. He didn't ask a question so nothing to say back, and I said how I had been having rough days. He asked if texting was making things worse and if there was anything he could do to help. I said he could text me, but I may not always respond because I don't know if he wants to chat or not. I said I didn't want to get into anything, but I need to focus on S and myself to make sure we are taken care of. He asked what that meant and is we needed money. He also said that he was planning on going to thanksgiving, if my brother and sister-in-law wouldn't act nasty, and he is planning on staying Thanksgiving night and the next night because of S's surgery. I told him money was tight with extra bills, but things have changed and I need to get used to them. I said all of the stresses are leading to problems and I need to focus on me so I can be the person I need to be. I also said my immediate family will not be there and he needs to get over it because his mom is mean to me and I still go over there. I also told him thank you for thinking of me by offering to spend the night, but it is not going to happen because it is too hard on S. It is either H moves home or he doesn't stay. I said thank you so much for the offer it is very kind. I went on to say how things have changed and I need let the change happen instead of trying to stop it because I can't stop it since it has already happened. He asked what that meant and said that after reading the books he is making some major (to him) changes and he hoped I could tell. he said the changes are making him happy. That he tried to call my brother and sister-in-law to apologize, but they did not answer (they were out of town), but there is no record of him calling. HE said my message sounded like I was giving up on us, and I said what memories I was thinking about and he is different from then, and some things about the future. He said he wants to be a "full time dad". I said that is good to know, but being a full time dad means also being a full time husband. I said overall I need to put our R on the back burner and take care of me because baring all the weight is honestly killing me. I said I love him more than he will ever know and I want our M to work out and become a happy, safe, loving M, but I can't do it by myself anymore. He said ok what do I need to do?

Here are the last two texts I sent which only got an "ok" between them and nothing after the last, although this mornign he sent a text saying good morning and have a good day to which I said thanks but it is not a good day because S is getting sick again and I have not slept well in two days.

Here are the texts...

"I need you to come home nad be my husband. THe type of husband you vowed to be. The type of man where I always feel safe and know that he ialways has me protected. I don't know if you are there yet. I don't want you to come home until you are ready and I want to give you time. I just can't hold us together anymore."

"You can keep texting and calling and doing whatever make you happy (once again I am glad you are happy again)> I am just going to stop texting you to do stuff and stop assuming you will call or have plans together (I.E friday night). You will have to start taking up some of the slack since I cna't anymore. I am scared about thisbecause since I have been holding on for so long, I am scared by letting go, I will lose everything, but I have to take care of myself for S. I have been having horrible stomach pains, plus dizziness, sleeplessness, head aches, and right now a stabbing sore throat. i have to take care of me so I can be the best mom possible and so I can be a good teacher."

I don't know what to do. I am scared, sad, confused...so many other things. I don't know what to do. H seems to be saying he is changing and the texts, show it and he has been being really nice lately and offering sometimes in the last week to help, which sometimes I have taken him up on, but at the same time I don't want to trust him and get hurt again. In the past four days, H has not talked to OW only about 4 times, and text her about the same amount, but I don't know if that is because he is stopping contact or because she has moved in. He called a hotel in Chicago on Saturday, and I don't know if they had a romantic weekend or maybe he is planning something for our anniversary. I am so scared to trust him again and be hurt. I don't know if I should tell him I am scared to trust or not. I don't want to scare him off, but I can't do this anymore. I don't want to get hurt again. I think that is why since the baby steps have started I have felt worse and worse. I am scared. I don't know if I can trust him. I know this is a long one, but any thoughts out there? Should I tell him I notice the changes, but I am scared? Should I leave him alone? Should I tell him exactly my concerns that he is changing, but I don't know if I can believe it will last? Will that just deflate all he is doing?

I need suggestions!

[awest1217]

It is funny because after re-reading my post, it is almost like I am on the other side of the fence. He is trying to change, but I am the one recoiling, funny how that happens. What I have wanted is seems to be starting to happen, but at the same time, is it really?

[Lucky11too]

It is scary b/c you are going into unknown territory again, you want to believe he's changed, but you don't want to get hurt again. But if you don't allow him and accept that he can change, he never will change. I don't know what his motives are behind this - manipulation or true change - but if you want the change to continue, you have to recognize and encourage it. You can tell him that you really appreciate all the effort he is making (recognize it) but still keep the boundaries you need to protect you and S (I thought it was excellent that you set the boundary about staying the night over thanksgiving!) It sounds like he feels you are closing up, which you don't want to do either, but I thought it was good that you reminded him that you needed to take care of S and yourself first. Just remember to continue to watch out for those baby steps (you even said he's talking to OW less - yay!), so don't overlook those in your fear.

So in answer to some of your questions, I think you should avoid the "but" talk of "I want to trust you again BUT I'm scared to get hurt" or "I noticed your changes BUT I'm scared they won't last". It just comes off very negative. Keep the interaction positive with H, but just continue to do what you need to do for you and S.

One last note, I know these more major R conversations are tough, but it's good to sometimes figure out where your at. What you've learned from last night is that he appears to be open to working on your R ("what do I need to do"), but that you are reserved about his changes, right? Hopefully you can avoid the R talk for a while now, but just use it as a learning experience. Also think, what does H need to do for me to trust him again. What particular things would he do (your text to H was an overall description of what you want, but what are the specific things he could do now - action oriented!)? You're doing great though! Unfortunately, I don't think we can avoid heartache completely in all this progress. I know I don't want to get hurt anymore either, but the saying "nothing ventured, nothing gained" comes to mind. But on the other hand, continue to protect you and S, and if you are not in a place to handle that emotional rollcoaster, like right now, H will just have to sit on the back burner.

Hope you're throat is feeling better today. So sorry to hear that S is sick again. =(

[awest1217]

I just get so confused some times and I do want us to work. I just don't like always "pretending" everything is good when it isn't. I don't want to say it is his fault or blame him, but I also don't want to say everything is good with S and I when it isn't. We are both getting sick and if H were home, he could take care of us. If it were one of us...not a problem, but both of us is not good. I can ask my family to help, but I feel bad asking them to take off of work for me, although they would.

I think what H can do right now to show me he has really changed is call more and not text. Texting to me is so inpersonal. It is good for a quick question, but not if you want to have a conversation. If you really want to know how I am doing, call. H could invite us over to "his" house. Like I said before, I don't know if the less talking is because he really is not talking to OW or because she moved in with him. This summer when he called her less it was because she moved in. He could move home. He could ask us to do something instead of me asking. He could come over more often to show that he really wants to be with us. It is hard to see him go, but the more he is at home, maybe the less and less he will want to leave. He could tell me about the changes he has made. I don't see the changes because he does not live with me and we don't talk often. He usually texts me once a day, but that is about it. I may see him once a week, but once again that is not enough for me to see his change. I know he has changed because of last weeks nice romantic gestures. I am just so caught with the trust issue. He knows I have no trust in him because of telling OW "I Love you" while he was still at the house this last time he left. I told him he would have to completely rebuild everything so I won't tell him again because he knows, and is an intelligent person.

I just need those kind encouragements (lucky :)) to remind me that he is making progress, and I need to just be patient, stick to my boundaries, but love him too.