I call what you described above as the "skinny french fry fight". In the 13 years I was w/my H (and keep in mind we are both 34 so it really was 1/3 of our lives we spent together) the BIGGEST fight we ever had was over french fries. I bought the skinny french fries for a dinner I was preparing and he wanted the thick ones.
Clearly two sane people would not engage in such a battle over french fries. We weren't fighting about french fries though and we both knew it. It was just easier to fight about french fries then what was really going on. Funny how somebody can be so vocal about their absolute *need* for thick french fries but keeps important needs they felt not being met to themselves.
I think most divorced/soon to be divorced/separated spouses all have the "skinny french fry fight". Its sick but easier to fight about french fries, tools, CD's or *something* that is trivial because once you start arguing about the *real* stuff a [censored] storm starts. It's much easier to apologize about a fight over "skinny french fries" then apologize for the underlying reason. French fries and tools are tangible. Feelings and hurt and betrayal are not. That is what makes it tough IMO.
And I am on the same page as you about the post divorce "friendship". It just won't work for me given the circumstances my H created. I will take accountability for my part of the demise of OUR marriage but I wont be party to the crap he has pulled over the past 21 months.
It's tough to be friends post-d. I've written about it on my thread. We have no major fights and things are amicable but even when it's a good exchange it's sad. It brings up memories of what used to be there but isn't. 18 years of friendship but now it's too hard to share. I still care but I can't be dragged under.
There's a common theme mentioned around here, "doing what you can and letting God deal with the rest" or "putting down the baggage and walking away". You can't carry it around man. It will crush you. The Dog is working on this too but I'll admit it's tough.
But it's not just limited to our culture. A few years ago I visited an amazing carved stone Hindu temple under construction on the Garden Isle (the largest outside of India). Near a statue of Ganesha by the front gate there was a large pot with little pieces of paper. Visitors were invited to write a worry or problem on the paper, throw it in the pot and burn it up. One doesn't need to be Hindu or even religious to see the value of this exercise. I still have a picture of BFF and I burning up our worries. While that sitch may have changed, the action of "letting it go" is truly a necessary part of life and it's a memory and life lesson I remember fondly. It helped then and it's something I need to do more.
Strangely enough, the more one let's go. The more one feels "at home" with these things. Fewer squables. Fewer cares.
You're a good man SP. Namaste.
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
What's bugging me is, in large part, WAW's attitude. I mean, she called me an *sshole this evening because I'm "the cruelest person she's ever met" and won't "treat her nicely." And what is it that makes me cruel? I haven't forgiven her for her affair. Which ended. 2-1/2 months ago. So what's the big whippee-doo? You know, get over it and stuff.
And how, specifically, am I not treating her "nicely?" By saying mean things like "you had an affair." And by not wanting to chit-chat on the phone.
To this day she has this infuriating sense of entitlement that has been characteristic of the entire process since Day One. Maybe "entitlement" isn't the right word -- this sense that somehow it's MY job to get on board with HER decision and its repercussions and effects.
Get this -- she blamed ME for the fact that because SHE decided to move out, she had to buy a new house, new furniture, a refrigerator, etc. etc. Now there was never any consideration of renting, say, or crashing at a friend's house. Naaaah -- we went straight from "Hi, welcome back from your trip" to "I want a divorce" to "and I'm moving out and buying a new house for my freedom" -- yet magically it's my fault that, when you buy a new house for your freedom, you have to fill it with stuff.
From there we'll go directly back to the not-so-subtle attacks on spousal support: "I'm a grown up -- I can take care of myself" and Real Men would never take a dime from their Walkaway Wayward Wives and...
Yet when I point out that there's a great job opportunity for me, but it will require that I relocate by a considerable distance, but that the earnings will wipe out any requirement she could conceivably have for paying support: "Oh, so you're going to abandon your kids -- nice. Well, they'll just be raised by an au pair because I'm not stopping my work."
Oh, and that roast I made last week so the kids and I would have something to eat for a couple days? Yeah -- did that to show her up. Because I know she can't cook.
How is it that you forget that fighting with you is what she enjoys doing? Sure, OM is coming over for sex and she has to be sure you know about it and are angry about it in advance. She can't stand to miss one of her rolls in the scrap pile with you.
Yeah, she's got a thing for scrapping with you SP. Keep those boundaries. It's certainly not fair she's blame shifting either. She must be still working thru a lot of stuff.
"My actions are my only true belongings. I cannot escape the consequences of my actions. My actions are the ground upon which I stand." Thich Nhat Hanh
If the opposite of love is indifference, I dont see any of that (indifference) here. What's the point of "showing each other" and acting like kids? I dont get it. There ARE kids in this story and it's not you and/or her.
Come on SP, deal with you anger and get wise. See a C, go play box, meditate etc etc. Even when you do have kids, there is a way to minimize contact. You need that. Stop the disrespectful discussions, dont "show her" anything. Even if she is the one initiating BS, it takes 2 to have a "fight". What's your goal right now? Look into your future, what's your goal? I assume it is to have smooth co-parenting. Work with that on your mind.
You are caught in "a fight" about who is wrong, right, past, present, everything mixed "in one". Stop this now.If she cant, you can. STOP and breathe. It seems you guys are now going thru the anger phase. Next one, as you probably know, is becoming "friends" and then after that, who knows... Maybe nothing, maybe anything... K
Even if she is the one initiating BS, it takes 2 to have a "fight". What's your goal right now? Look into your future, what's your goal? I assume it is to have smooth co-parenting. Work with that on your mind.
You're right, Kalni. I didn't listen to you -- LOL -- but you're right.
Today I fought back. WAW said she "gets" why I'll never stop being an *sshole to her -- because I just don't want her to have any happiness.
No, she doesn't get it. When Signore Schmuckatelli dumped her, you will recall, WAW went down down down in emotional terms, to the point that I was worried about the kids being around her.
And, in that cycle of back-into-married-mode we all sort of fall into from time-to-time, she came to Smiley's Person Himself for consoling, which I foolishly provided in the interest of Friendiness.
And after a while, she got some cojones about it, and when Signore started sniffing around again (the man's nefarious) -- about the time she'd moved onto to Signore il Secondo -- she stood up for herself and told him to go pound sand straight to H*ll.
"Well done."
(*Sound of brakes being slammed*) Not so much. Because she couldn't take it. She just couldn't quit him. So she contacted him and asked him to be her friend on Facebook and post things there. For all her world to see, mind you -- the same people who know just how much she was hurt when Signore dumped her.
How do I know? She told me. "Just in case" I noticed it on her Facebook page [which I'm blocked from anyway!] she wanted me to know that it was "okay" because now that there's Signore il Secondo old Signore il Originale isn't important.
That was the end of bridge-building.
Yes, @Gypsy and @Kalni are absolutely right -- that's her personal life, that's her prerogative. I don't deny it. She can be friends, real or virtual, with anyone she wants.
But it's my prerogative not to open myself up to WAW as a "friend" when she is still so obviously in need of Signore's attentions. I don't really care about S. il Secondo -- she'd moved out, she was on her own; I was flirting with Miss Someone, so if she's going to have a Mr. Someone -- sauce for the gander is sauce for goose. Fine.
But this guy? The one she cheated on me with? The one who was the Greener Grass she could leave the children and me for?
No. That's beyond the pale.
So I told her so when she asked what my problem was. I wrote this:
You made your choice, and you chose {Signore Schmuckatelli}. When you said to him and everyone in your world who knows about him that you just couldn't go without having him available to you - you chose.
Let me put it in the words you used to me to rationalize and justify your affair. You said to him, to your world, and to yourself that your relationship with this "distraction" with whom you'd had the "briefest of one-night-stands" (something so trivial you could hardly remember it, with a person so easy to blow off after he acted like a jerk that it "was like swatting a fly") that relationship was worth eating crow over to publicly acknowledge your desire for a continued connection.
You chose to declare through your actions that that relationship with this man whom you yourself described as "an irrelevance" was worth keeping alive. Your marriage? No, that wasn't worth it. But {Signore}, who'd made you feel so "repulsive" because "he wouldn't even use you for sex?"
Well that must have been an affair to remember.
That choice is your privilege.
But privileges still come with a price. When you chose it you also chose never to know me as anything but the kids' father - and your *sshole ex-husband - again. I have to assume the price is worth it.
Did I say "be friends?" Did I say stuff in your feelings? NOOOOOOO!!! I said, keep your damn distance.
We have more similarities in our cases than you will ever know. As far as me and you are concerned. My advice to you, for the last time so you wont hate me, back off.
She cant help you deal with your anger and disappointment. Dont go asking/expecting (indirectly) her validation. And dont offer yours to her since you -rightfully so IMO-, think she doenst "deserve it". Rule no #1 =detach! It wasnt that easy after all, huh? Be SMARTER. You are ruled by your emotions. K
Kalni, I just noticed, you have over 8669 posts credited to you, WOW! What is your current situation like? Do you have a link to your current situation on here?
