Re finances -- unless you are legally separated, having a draft of a D agreement isn't going to make much difference. As long as H continues to run up his debt, it is your debt too.
When I got D, I had about $13,000 of debt. It was student loan debt for money that both H and I lived on, and credit card debt that we had split. In other words, it was all old shared debt. XH also had $13,000 of debt. $2000 old credit card debt and $11,000 for a car he bought his GF. Guess what, the debt cancelled out. It was all joint debt because it was debt that happened during the M. Actually, I was lucky that I got away with calling student loan debt joint debt, because that is one thing that they'll stick one person with. Legally, until you have some sort of legal financial separation in place, you are financially one person, pretty much. Tinkering around with direct deposit and rights to accounts can help you manage money a bit. But if H runs up $50,000 in credit card debt, half of it will be yours. (Of course, I'm not a L and different states may vary, but as far as I know, this is pretty much always the case.)
ohhh goodness, I forgot to tell you...I have a phone consult with Dr. Hallowell at the end of this month. YES, I took the quiz and I appear to be sort of in the middle. Both tests I took also said that where I scored could also be a sign of anxiety disorder. Either way, I could care less. I'm just happy that I will get help and make progess. The consult should really tell us alot more about where my issues are pointing
M 43 H 34 D 4 H asked for D on 6/21/09:1st D mediation 7/27;D says he wants to try 8/18; *I will stumble, I will fall down but I will not be moved.(N.Grant)
On viewing 3 of new Tinkerbell, still like it, lol. BTW, I googled and there are new Tink movies coming out through 2012 :-) !!!
We also like some of the Barbie movies (Princess and the Pauper, Dancing Princesses, Diamond Castle, some others -- and trust me, I was not at all excited about Barbie movies, lol). But I give a big thumbs down to the latest Barbie adventure, the Three Muskateers -- what a train wreck. It is so hard to find movies that have little violence and a decent story with decent female characters. Amazing how little most of the Disney Princesses actually do in their movies...
So, without going into too much history and backstory, here is an update on where things are. Before I do I just want to say without all of you who have given advice and listened as I typed, I would not be in the place I am right now. The advice I have been given and the amount of support, love and care is just simply invaluable.
After my last posts I really took a “dark” stance on M. I detached as much as I was capable of and focused on me and my daughter only. I watched my H sink into a state that I hadn’t seen him in in a very long time and I didn’t follow him to that dark place. I took DD and did things with her and made meals only for myself, didn’t ask if he needed money…I just basically let the rope loosen a bit. I was not in a place, nor am I still, to let the rope go entirely. My self-esteem and self love is still a little too fragile and in it’s infancy for that. But I am so proud of how I have been handeling myself. I have so much more respect for this woman who sits typing. So many people say that DB’ing isn’t for wimps and I have found strength that I never, ever knew that I had in me. You all helped me to see that and your stories and advice has led me there.
This past Monday, my husband came to me and told me what has been going on with him and honestly opened up to me in a way he has never done before. It took a long, long time for him to get his first sentence out but when he did, it just flowed out of him. This is the long and short of it.
1. OW was never out of the picture as I had been told. He has maintained contact, both on the phone and in person since July (when he promised not to). They have been to dinner, seen each other at bowling, texted, phoned, etc. 2. He hasn’t had any contact w/ her in 3 weeks. 3. He felt he had to tell me to clear his conscience and so that he could finally put OW to bed. He feels really guilty, a lot of self hatred and that’s why he told me on 10/28 that he still wanted a divorce. He said, in his mind it was easier to say that than to actually come clean. He is extremely ashamed of his behavior. 4. He is completely committed to working on our marriage and wants to be in a strong, stable, healthy, loving relationship. 5. He wants to see a relationship/ADHD coach to help him understand why he is/was behaving the way he is and get on a new med/therapy program. He doesn’t think he has his emotional/mental issues under control. 6. He admitted that OW is just a fantasy. That the “high” he gets from that situation is just the new, shiny, happy, fuzzy thing that happens at the beginning of all relationships and it will not last. That he’s just looking for the “fix”. He sees the insanity of pursuing her and losing us. 7. He acknowledged that he sees changes in me and says that what his going on with him and his disrespect of our marriage has very little to do with me but he’s blaming me none the less and that’s going to stop because I deserve better.
To all of this I said “It really must be hard to feel so lost and such a sense of guilt and self loathing. That said, I can’t help you find your way. You have to find it. I will participate in your recovery as necessary but I won’t guide you to it and place you there. You have to seek it and work it. I also will not tolerate a 3rd person in our marriage. You need to know if you see/speak to her again, our marriage is over. You have to give me some time to process all of what you have just told me so I’d like to just sit on this for awhile and I’ll let you know when I want to talk. As far as your commitment, words are cheap and actions are where it’s at so don’t give me empty promises. They sound nice but I’m not nieve. I know the difference between an act of love and loving words. The act means 10 times more to me.”
It ended there. I’ve been processing stuff but to be honest, I am still a little numb. Many of you said the OW was still there but I just didn’t want to see it. I want this marriage to work and I want to try and learn to trust. I also think I need to work on me more before I go gung ho. There is still so much of me and my behavior that I need to work on. But, this may be the start of the healing, I don’t know…..guess we’ll just have to see.
I also think that Oldtimer is right, I will move over to the infedelity board. That's the reality of it. I was unfaithful and so was he. It doesn't matter who kept going, we both failed each other. I've been at this a LONG time now and I'm no longer a newbie.
Peace,
Gina B
M 43 H 34 D 4 H asked for D on 6/21/09:1st D mediation 7/27;D says he wants to try 8/18; *I will stumble, I will fall down but I will not be moved.(N.Grant)
To all of this I said “It really must be hard to feel so lost and such a sense of guilt and self loathing. That said, I can’t help you find your way. You have to find it. I will participate in your recovery as necessary but I won’t guide you to it and place you there. You have to seek it and work it. I also will not tolerate a 3rd person in our marriage. You need to know if you see/speak to her again, our marriage is over. You have to give me some time to process all of what you have just told me so I’d like to just sit on this for awhile and I’ll let you know when I want to talk. As far as your commitment, words are cheap and actions are where it’s at so don’t give me empty promises. They sound nice but I’m not nieve. I know the difference between an act of love and loving words. The act means 10 times more to me.”
It ended there.
And THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is how it's DONE.
(Yes, Gina, that is the HIGHLY coveted "Puppy's 4 Whistles Award")
Started with validation ("It really must be hard to feel so lost and such a sense of guilt and self loathing ...").
Laid out your own Boundaries of Personal Integrity ("I also will not tolerate a 3rd person in our marriage. You need to know if you see/speak to her again, our marriage is over.")
Didn't allow herself to be rushed, or -- more importantly -- to say or do something at that moment of maximum stress that might hurt her DB efforts at such a crucial time ("You have to give me some time to process all of what you have just told me ... ")
... and KEPT CONTROL OF THE TIMELINE/AGENDA ("... so I’d like to just sit on this for awhile and I’ll let you know when I want to talk.)
... and ended by standing up for herself and landing some amazing "truth darts" ("As far as your commitment, words are cheap and actions are where it’s at so don’t give me empty promises. They sound nice but I’m not nieve. I know the difference between an act of love and loving words. The act means 10 times more to me."
Gina, something tells me that you REHEARSED that confrontation, and PREPARED for it, am I right?
I'm really sorry for your pain, Gina, but you can do this. And you have some amazing people here who can (and will) help you! I know that must have been incredibly difficult to do, but I have a feeling you will look back on that conversation 20, 30, 40 years from now as the Moment You Took Back Your Life.
Excellent job Gina... Others are watching and observing you on this thread. Asking themselves if this would work for them.
Let him show you why you should give this another shot. He needs to think you are doing some serious thinking here. (as you should be doing) Now is the time to consider what some of your ground rules will be IF you decide to proceed forward. He needs to tell you that he will play by your ground rules because he WANTS to. Don't give up your new found strength easily.
Excellent job though. Remember that you still need to proceed with caution and not let him think you want to rush back into things....
Let him show you why you should give this another shot. He needs to think you are doing some serious thinking here. (as you should be doing) Now is the time to consider what some of your ground rules will be IF you decide to proceed forward. He needs to tell you that he will play by your ground rules because he WANTS to. Don't give up your new found strength easily.
I agree. And I think as a starting point for you, Gina, that there's lots of good fodder in Oldtimer's long 11/2 post to you, as well as Gucci's Halloween post.
If you are going to stick to your stated position, you probably may as well D now. There almost CERTAINLY will be more contact between H and OW. These things happen. There will be sputters. There will be a bit more OW drama before it truly goes to zero contact moving forward. So, don't set yourself up for failure by making that a make or break deal.
Also, H has almost CERTAINLY been having sex with OW. People LIE about these things. He has NOT told you everything with this first round of disclosure, he has disclosed probably as much as he needed to to feel like he could live with himself, but less than everything because (1) he can't fully face himself and (2) he does not think you would still give him another chance if you knew everything. There is MORE that will come out. None of this means that he isn't sincere in his efforts to heal your M. It is simply that he is human. Humans LIE about things that they can't face in themselves and they LIE to protect themselves from too great a loss. As more is disclosed in the future, this will actually mean that he is trusting you more and feeling even more pressure to do the right thing by you. So, when you find out another hurtful thing, keep in mind that it is a sign of growing intimacy and growing fidelity/loyalty. At some point, it may be helpful to offer him a clean slate but ask him to clear the air of EVERYTHING he's been keeping from you. But, the offer would need to be sincere. And, he still probably wouldn't be able to think of EVERYTHING at that time. Again, we hide from ourselves.
So, if you are going to get past the As, you are going to have to accept that it will be a bumpy road. CHOOSE to ride it, CHOOSE to accept that you are exposing yourself to more hurts for your OWN reasons. You do the cost/benefit analysis.
Get STD tests, HIV now and in six months. Practice only safe sex. Not optional. H has been having sexual interactions with OW. Given they have been together in person, these interactions almost certainly involve both virtual and non-virtual sexual activity. Men cheating on their wives are notoriously poor at reporting this, or the extent of cheating, or exactly what went on. They will deny sex if it was "just oral." They will deny intercourse if they used a condom because they'll think there is no risk. They will deny intercourse without a condom because they already know it was idiotic and especially hurtful to expose their Ws to OWs possible STDs.
Finally, you've both had As. If you are going to move forward, full transparency on BOTH your parts is called for. Share all email accounts, all passwords, all cell phone records. Account for all of your time. BOTH of you. Keep computer time PUBLIC. Complete transparency. The computer gaming needs to stop if it is online interactive. Or, you both need to play it together at the same time. Maybe it would be helpful for H to identify all the times he feels like he is cheating/sneaking around on you so that you can both avoid them. My guess is that he is probably romancing/sexting women online in the games, so that is my concern with the games.
Hang in there. At least you can now believe us when we say that his withdrawal and flip-flop behavior is about HIM, not you. It is his response to the guilt/shame he feels when he cheats on you in some way. Rather than feeling the guilt/shame, he instead projects his bad feelings in a distorted way and decides that you are the one to really blame.
You are doing great! Maybe he can go see Hallowell with you :-)
P.S. NOTICE that when you backed off, H stepped up. There is a certain amount of work that is needed to maintain an R with the amount of space that H is comfortable with. If you do all that work, he doesn't have to do any. You quit doing all that work and left room for him to meaningfully participate in maintaining the R. And he did.
Perhaps if you make room for him to meaningfully participate in your M as an ADULT and as a real PARTNER worthy of respect, he'll do that too
