WAW and 4 kids

[Deep]

Trying, I think you've been working at your M now and going through many ups and downs ... feel for you.

I think it may be a combination of many things that's eating at your resolve now. W's continued waywardness and disrespect among other things.

I know, and you do too I'm sure, that there ain't much you can do about her choices and how and when (if) she chooses to wake up. As you mentioned, there may have been some small signs, but not anything compelling to you. It just takes time bro, and when it comes, it could be a sudden, if pleasant surprise. You can't live your life planning for this, and I guess I'm just posting this as I know some of the crap you must be feeling now.

[CABBR]

TDR,

You seem to be handling a difficult situation with dignity. We all back pedal and regress and there are times when the despair hits you. And there are times when the anger comes out. It's damn hard to stay above the fray.

My W exhibits a similar sense of entitlement. She has filed and is a talking about buying a small house, etc.

Living together makes it tougher. There are times when you see a glimpse of the person your W used to be and then the coldness slaps you upside the head.

I also worry about the toll a dysfunctional H-W relationship has on our kids. They're already hurting.

CABBR

[tryingtilDorR]

CABBR & Deep - thanks for your thoughts.

Just when I get frustrated about the fact that this has been going on for 12 months (the worst of it anyway), I decide I can deal with it because "it has been going on for 12 months" so why give up now???

Continuing to wait around seems fruitless due to the definition of insanity (doing same thing and expecting different result), but the only thing left to do different would be for us to S/D, which she claims she wants to do (still - same story for the past year).

She may be on the verge of leaving now, so as I stated there may be a break in the weather here.

Her birthday is this week. It will be interesting to see how it goes - I don't plan on doing anything out of the ordinary for our situation, which means basic acknowledgement and putting up a good front for the kids.

[givingitmyall]

Trying,

Admittedly, I have not reviewed your entire sitch. But, you sound like you are in the same place I was a couple of weeks ago. You might want to take a look at my thread for the last 2-3 weeks to see if any of the advice I received (esp. from Coach) helps.

I was tired of limboland. I just could not wait around any longer. You have to be ready for the worst though, before pushing any at that point. While I do not feel any better about M working out than I did 3-4 weeks ago, I feel better about me and the fact I am leading us out of limboland. To where, who knows. But, I am doing something rather than waiting for something to be done to me.

[tryingtilDorR]

GIMA - I hadn't looked at your thread for the past week or so and I am glad your W is agreeing to MC - Great! I was totally bummed out when you guys were becoming friends again but then it all blew up. I find hope in anyone's sitch when things seem to move in the right direction after being so hopeless.

She may just be using MC to 'prove' that its over as many have mentioned around these threads, but any kind of movemebt by W is a good thing in our situations I figure. What the heck do we have to lose??


Some great points I just read in GIMA's thread that I wanted to catalog here:

But the truth of the matter is that we are M'd (legally) to women who have emotionally checked out on the MR a long time ago. So, they are leaving the choice of what to do, in a sense, up to us. Call that what you will, but for better or for worse, we are going to have to be the ones to decide where things go from here.

Hang in there. We will all handle it and get through this.

So true, So true, unfortunately. When I try to decide ( I have pushed her to make a decision at times ) all she can come up with is: "If you don't like the situation then YOU leave!"

Either way, it's time for a major reality check. All y'all are now WARs (Walk Away Roommates) to their WASness, on account of how they already have definitively walked away as spouses. The decisions are now yours, as is the power. Use it kindly, but do use it. IMHO.

She is in no hurry to get D'd - she is likewise, in no hurry to move towards MC. Instead, she appears to be happy to move back into limboland. While I cannot live that way, I don't want to blow everything up while Thanksgiving and Christmas are just around the corner. Or, am I being unreasonable?

No you aren't. I want the holidays to be as 'normal' as possible for my kids - it might be the last time that they have holidays with us all together as ONE family and not having to split time. If they only knew what WAW has in store for all of us down the road.

I am wondering how many other people are in this sort of situation. I would characterize it as a "Stalled WAS" The spouse walked away emotionally/psychologically, but for one reason or another never left and are themselves stuck in the status quot.

Been there for 12 months for sure, as soon as EA hit last November, but was also the case to a lesser extent for months prior to that.

"I want what I want, but I'm afraid to do it."
"I want what I want but what if I change my mind."
"I want what I want but what if it will be better for me if I wait to pull the trigger."
"I want what I want but I don't want to do it - you do it!"

I sure don't know what is in your wife's mind - but I've read your accounts and seen versions of the above. None of those represent positions of strength which ought to encourage you.

My W described exactly.

She said a wacky thing to me recently. When she told me for the 1000th time that its over between us and that there is nothing to work on, I told her she can't predict the future and therefore doesn't know if we would have been happy if we had worked it out. Her response: "You can't predict the future either, you might find someone who makes you very happy and treats you right in the future"????

This shows how screwed up she is - she is looking to leave her M so she can find someone else to make her happy (she got this idea during her EA and hasn't let it go I think).

I told her - make yourself happy THEN work on your M and you will in turn make your kids happier, etc etc. However, we all know how effective it is to try to negotiate with a WAW. I do it less and less as time goes on, but as I stated earlier I backslid last week a bit.

Another thing - I was talking to MIL and she told me that SIL was told by W that they shouldn't get her anything for her birthday and especially no 'mushy cards'. MIL/SIL are scratching their heads over this - they are a very loving/close family and make a big deal about birthdays. MIL says it is because she feels guilty and doesn't feel worthy of love from others - probably true.

[tryingtilDorR]

I sense a shift in the W's attitude lately. Previously, her position seemed to be:

"The M made me do all these things (EA) - its not my fault - it all just happeend and I need to move on so I can be happy. I deserve to be happy. I don't want to wait until my kids are all gone to have to find someone because I will be older, etc etc"

In other words, she wasn't to blame and these things just happen in life and you can't control them. It is just part of nature. Feelings just happen. Sorry about all this but I don't know what it is like to be in your (LBS) shoes. etc. etc. If you don't like it YOU can leave - I am here for my kids and not doing anything wrong, blah blah blah. It is YOUR problem if you think the situation isn't livable, etc.

This has basically been the script for hte past 12 months, until very recently.

Lately I have heard something slightly different from her:

"I don't want to keep hurting you, so I need to get on with my plan to S/D because we can't continue this way - it isn't good for our kids and not fair to you (or me)" Doing a little mind reading, I think she looks at it like she set this ball in motion and she needs to see it through because that is what she decided had to happen,e tc etc.

Something has broken through the ice to make her see that what she has been doing (hanging around in limboland, continuing to talk to OM, etc) is wrong and not fair to me. She has mentioned a couple of times over the past few weeks that she doesn't want to hurt me anymore. She told my mother "I am not a good person". It tells me that she is carrying around a lot of guilt. Her guilt is a big obstacle to get over if she is going to decide to R some day. It is an unavoidable phase she would need to pass through, even though I would not try to throw salt in that wound.

Her birthday was yesterday. We went to dinner with her family the night before. I told her happy birthday when I first saw her in the morning, sent her a text during the day saying "I hope you are having a nice birthday today" to which she replied "Thank You".

I then bought her a gift during the day but no card. The gift is something she needs and wants. I had to meet someone for dinner so I got home around 8 and gave her the gift and she seemed to be really pleased. She has been nicer to me and our interactions have been more normal the past couple of days - we will see if it lasts.

I also know she is aggressively looking at rental properties online, and I found a blank rental applicaiton in her car from a property mgmt company. She is seriously considering leaving at this point, so I am just waiting for her to make a move.

I have no control over her actions, but I can control mine, and I have pretty much 'given up' to the fact that she is gone, so when she goes it will not be a shock if it happens but then I go into defense mode, responding to any legal actions she takes. If she doesn't take legal action, she is on her own (she can work more and support herself no problem). I won't support her financially at all and neither will her family, but I suspect she has visited with her L and she will push to file for Legal Separation to get financial support, to which I will respond with Divorce.

LS in my state is the same process as D - the paperwork is the same, and the only reason you would LS is if youneed to stay married for religious reasons, etc. but never planned to actually D. Why go through the hassle of LS if she moves out and thus communicates her intentions about the M's future? Divorce is the best way to go in that case - why delay the inevitable and waste money/energy on LS? I am getting ahead of myself, but preparing for eventual actions on her part.

[tryingtilDorR]

I left town with S12 for a tournament this weekend. In the past six months when I would leave town I would find myself thinking about W and wondering what she is doing and lamenting the fact that I didn't have anyone at home to call and talk about what was going on at home, what was going on where I was, and other normal conversations with a spouse when you leave town.

This weekend was different - I really didn't think about her much. We had a lot of fun. I wasn't looking forward to seeing her when I got home.

She has been sorting through old clothes and pictures, getting her things in order to move from the looks of things.

MIL came over and had a long talk with her Friday. apparently it was very emotional and she told W many things about what she SHOULD be doing abotu her M. It was the kind of stuff that WAW typically doesn't listen to - she needs to cut off contact with
OM, she needs to try working on her M, etc etc. My mother has been reaching out to her as well - wants W to see her psychiatrist.

[Gardener]

Trying, I'm kinda late responding, but,

Some great points I just read in GIMA's thread that I wanted to catalog here:Gima always makes great points. Has helped me a lot.

But the truth of the matter is that we are M'd (legally) to women who have emotionally checked out on the MR a long time ago. So, they are leaving the choice of what to do, in a sense, up to us. Yep. In that sense, too, they "abdicate", exile themselves to Limboland.

So true, So true, unfortunately. When I try to decide ( I have pushed her to make a decision at times ) all she can come up with is: "If you don't like the situation then YOU leave!" You; "I've certainly been thinking about that"

She is in no hurry to get D'd - she is likewise, in no hurry to move towards MC. Instead, she appears to be happy to move back into limboland. While I cannot live that way, I don't want to blow everything up while Thanksgiving and Christmas are just around the corner. Or, am I being unreasonable?

Reasonable, IMHO. Wife dropped bomb last 11/09/08. We had usual, great (last) Thanksgiving with all while no one knew what was hanging over our heads. Glad we did. It was the las t one and it was good. Ditto Christmas. Wife had moved out 12/03 and most knew (though at the time she had us - me included- believing it was a "temporary respite"). It still was a good Christmas. And again, our last one..

[quote]"I want what I want, but I'm afraid to do it."
"I want what I want but what if I change my mind."
"I want what I want but what if it will be better for me if I wait to pull the trigger."
"I want what I want but I don't want to do it - you do it!"

I sure don't know what is in your wife's mind - but I've read your accounts and seen versions of the above. None of those represent positions of strength which ought to encourage you.

Not my sitch, but I agree.


She said a wacky thing to me recently. When she told me for the 1000th time that its over between us and that there is nothing to work on, I told her she can't predict the future and therefore doesn't know if we would have been happy if we had worked it out. Next time, just try, "You're right," and end it/walk away.
This shows how screwed up she is - she is looking to leave her M so she can find someone else to make her happy (she got this idea during her EA and hasn't let it go I think). Doesn't realize no one but she, herelf can make her happy.

I told her - make yourself happy THEN work on your M and you will in turn make your kids happier, etc etc. However, we all know how effective it is to try to negotiate with a WAW. So, Don't. Next time, try telling her, "Good luck,"(maybe even sarcastically) and walk away. I do it less and less as time goes on, but as I stated earlier I backslid last week a bit. Good. We ALL backslide.

MIL says it is because she feels guilty and doesn't feel worthy of love from others - probably true. Sound definitely true. MIL probably knows best.

At the very least, you're talking. My STBX Never makes contact, never talks anymore, so I've just stuck a fork in it; it's done. D is sched for 12/8
Keep going.

[Gardener]

"I don't want to keep hurting you, so I need to get on with my plan to S/D because we can't continue this way - it isn't good for our kids and not fair to you (or me)" Doing a little mind reading, I think she looks at it like she set this ball in motion and she needs to see it through because that is what she decided had to happen,e tc etc.

Something has broken through the ice to make her see that what she has been doing (hanging around in limboland, continuing to talk to OM, etc) is wrong and not fair to me. She has mentioned a couple of times over the past few weeks that she doesn't want to hurt me anymore. She told my mother "I am not a good person". It tells me that she is carrying around a lot of guilt. Her guilt is a big obstacle to get over if she is going to decide to R some day. It is an unavoidable phase she would need to pass through, even though I would not try to throw salt in that wound. So, MIL was right: Guilt, Guilt, Guilt. Does she go to IC?


I also know she is aggressively looking at rental properties online, and I found a blank rental applicaiton in her car from a property mgmt company. " Left" there for you to see it?

so when she goes it will not be a shock if it happens but then I go into defense mode, responding to any legal actions she takes. So, don't go into "defense mode. See an L now. Have you?

[Gardener]

In the past six months when I would leave town I would find myself thinking about W and wondering what she is doing and lamenting the fact that I didn't have anyone at home to call and talk about what was going on at home, what was going on where I was, and other normal conversations with a spouse when you leave town.This weekend was different - I really didn't think about her much. We had a lot of fun. I wasn't looking forward to seeing her when I got home. Good for you. Detachment.

MIL came over and had a long talk with her Friday. apparently it was very emotional and she told W many things about what she SHOULD be doing abotu her M. It was the kind of stuff that WAW typically doesn't listen to - she needs to cut off contact withOM, she needs to try working on her M, etc etc. Seems like you got a real good MIL. My mother has been reaching out to her as well - wants W to see her psychiatrist. And Mother.
Good luck.