Looks like I might soon be LBS...newcomer here

[brownidmom]

WOW, Gardener! BIM says as she pulls the splinters from the 2x4 lovingly lobbed at hear head. FIRST, THANK YOU for taking the time to read through my saga and for responding. Lots to respond to, a couple of things to clear up, so here goes...

B-He has never let you forget te fact that at 19 you had sex with a boy before you even met your future husband

I had met H and known him for about 2 weeks as that time; hadn't made a commitment yet though. I don't think it was that I did it so much as it is that I lied to him about it everytime he asked me for 13 years.

[quote=Gardener]

B-You (wrongly) kissed a man once 7 years ago and he will never let you forget that[quote=Gardener]

I kissed another man about 12.5 years ago, before we were engaged. Told H about it 7 years ago

[quote=Gardener]B-H had sex with someone while you were married [quote=Gardener]
H had sex with someone in 1991, 2 years after we met; never while married (that I know of)

[quote=Gardener]B-You love him with all your heart.
G-Love what? A memory?[quote=Gardener] Yes and no. When I met H, I was a 19 yo college sophomore who drank Th-Sun. I also had a 5-month period when I slept with several guys. Let's just say that I was lost. H was the most stable guy I had been around at that point, no drinking, honest, strong. In a way, he saved me from myself. He never asked or told me to stop drinking. I just began to feel stupid being drunk around him when he was stone cold sober. He made me realize I could go out, dance, and have a great time without being bombed out of my mind. He also taught me that I didn't have to have sex with a guy, that I was more than that. I have often thought over the years what I might have done/been if I hadn't met him when I did. I wasn't being careful when having sex and had sex with probably about 10-12 guys in a short period of time, some with no protection. I could've contracted HIV or become pregnant, not graduated from college, become something I can't even fathom. SO YES, I love a memory. And I feel forever indebted to him for being man enough to show me my self-worth.

[quote=Gardener]B-He makes me feel safe (WTF?) [quote=Gardener]

Yep, he saved me from myself! See above. Though not in the present, I'll give you that.

[quote=Gardener]G-Do you want your kids growing up witnessing that (learning what a "man does"?) Witnessing what a woman does to a woman and children, (i.e., let him do these things to them/? you?) [quote=Gardener] NO, I don't. My S9 and I have started to talk about what NOT to do because of it.

[quote=Gardener]B- S6 knows H is mean to me
B-S6 says something is wrong with his father for not believing you
B-H gave S4 nightmares with his words and behavior
B-H tells kids in car Most women offer nothing especially your mother
B-How do I tell H to leave S's out of it
G-You can't he won't he should know and do so on his own
B-H won't let you take your (hurting) boys for counseling
B-Son is very protective of you because he is observant and knows his father is mean
B-H is heartless
B-H told S he will be punished if he tells mom what H says about her[quote=Gardener]
The welfare of my boys is my biggest concern. H is not teaching them respect for me or other women by his words and deeds. HE DOES talk to them about many other important things in life, they love him, and he IS their father and always will be.



[quote=Gardener]B- I love him
G- Love what? [quote=Gardener] I do love him, the person I fell head over heels for 20 years ago, the man that I married, the man whose children I wanted to bear, the man I promised to love until the end of my life. I don't like him or who he has become, don't love who he has become, but he is still in there somewhere. Didn't most of us, or all of us, love our WAS when the bomb was dropped, they've all done horrible things and we are all here because we wanted to save our M with the person we committed the rest of our lives too? His actions and words are despicable. I do not accept him or what he is doing/has done. But yes, I do love him. Always will. [quote=Gardener]


[quote=Gardener]B-H had paternity tests performed while I was out of town
B-H won't go for IC, even though he's a Social Worker (Or has Social Worker degree)
B-He accused me of sleeping with his brother because he dreamed it
B- Then he said, well if it wasn't my brother, then you slept with my cousin
B-His actions and inactions are killing me
B-And this is magnified by the boys witnessing it
B-Boundaries mean nothing to him (again)
B-He decided yesterday he still won't leave boys out of R discussions
B- I fell down the stairs and he heard me but ignored me[quote=Gardener]

All of this...These are all my words, my feelings, my pain, my shame, my sad reality. THere have been times when I have actually considered that H is crazy, has lost his mind. Because for such a brilliant man, these ridiculous machinations he has created in his mind and the actions he has taken as a result make no freaking sense in any universe that I want to be a part of. The strongest part of me, the part that he built up, nurtured, and ultimately saved, still believes that we will make peace with one another. I don't know what that will look like or when it will come, I just know that whenever I feel like I'm ready to walk away, something stops me and I don't think it's fear any longer.

I am not trying to take up for him, it is hard to even believe this is my life sometimes. Part of me wonders if he doesn't need saving from himself now and I am the only one to do it??? IDK
[quote=Gardener]Sorry, to do this, bim, but these are weeks of your own words. We sometimes suggest on this forum that we go back and read our own posts and sitches and pretend they are someone else's. What would we think? What would we advise? I got started catching up on your sitch and couldn't stop, I was so appalled for One, BIG, FAT, EYE-OPENING (hopefully) 2x4 for you. Lovingly lobbed at your good, sweet head.you...[quote=Gardener] It is much appreciated. It is different hearing my own words from someone else's pov. Thank you for mirroring it back for me. Looks even more grave from over here.

The THING that I KNOW after all this time, after all these years, is that I will be okay and my boys will be okay. There isn't anything I won't do to make sure they are better than just ok.

I am not THERE yet. I am not ready to walk away just yet. I know there is something that is left undone. Once I know that, I will move on. I am already moving forward, but I will move on when I know it is time. I just know that day is not today.



Ready and waiting for more from all those still reading this...

BIM

[Gardener]

bim, How are you? Where are you?
(hope cutter, gnosis and I haven't scared you off!)

[brownidmom]

BIM, I too took the time to read your entire thread today.

Thank you for taking the time to read my thread and share your thoughts, Gnosis. I will have to check your thread out if you have one, your name is not familiar to me.

You constantly lied to him for 20 years. For him to constantly and persistently ask you about the OM during your relationship. This means that he either suspected something or someone told him about the event. That's 20 years that you swore left, right and center you had told him the truth. You were very convincing during this time. When you finally came clean it caused him to question and doubt EVERYTHING you have ever said. Though it doesn't sound any better than lying for 20 years, I lied for 13 years. We have been together 20 years and I told him 7 years ago. I completely GET that I made him question every word that has ever come out of my mouth. It sucks, but I get it. Thus, the guilt.


His trust was shattered. He views the history you've shared together built on the foundation of lies.
You're exactly right. That is what he thinks.

However:

This DOES NOT excuse him stepping out of the marriage and having an affair of his own. No matter how he tries to justify it to himself.

He has never had an affair that I know of. He had sex with another woman 18 years ago, when we were dating and (broken up, he says, though I didn't think we were broken up at the time)

When the time comes, and you are ready for it, an option is to sit down with your H and talk. This is a last resort... and the conversation should go along these lines, "H, I realize that I hurt you throughout the relationship by not telling you the truth. I accept the responsibility for that. What you should also realize is that I am not the only betrayed party. YOU cheated on ME where I have NEVER cheated on you. It's time for you to own that too.

I've said this a million times, it seems. My words don't mean much to him the last 7 years.


The only way I know how to finally prove to you that I have not lied about anything else in our marriage is to take a polygraph test. I am willing to do that for you.

Already took a polygraph test 2 years ago. It was utterly humiliating but I agreed to it because I had nothing else to hide. The examiner asked me 3 questions. Here they are and what the results were:

1) Have you had sexual relations with anyone other than H from the first time you had sex with H until you were married. Answer: NO result: deceptive response

2) Other than kissing X one time when you were dating H, have you ever kissed another person from the time you first had sex with H until the present time? Answer: NO Result: truthful response

3) Have you had sexual relations with anyone other than your H from the time you married H until the present? Answer: No
Result: Truthful response

My experience is that lie detectors must detect something other than lies because I told the truth to all 3 questions. I have since done some research on false negatives on polygraphs and wish I would have done so before I agreed to take it. The whole thing was manipulated.

Let me repeat, the conversation in quotes is your last resort and you should be FULLY prepared to follow through with your decision. It's not guaranteed to work BIM but it may be worth a shot. You cannot continue like this. It is destroying you and your children. Also, before you do this conversation, make sure you have had legal counsel and are aware of your rights.

Filing for D is not the end of the world. Look at all the WAW's here... their H's only woke up when they saw that WAW was serious and committed to leaving.

I sincerely wish the best for you.

Thanks, I really do appreciate all of it. I have been down, but I am up now and I am ready to start swinging. I will flourish and I will be sure that my boys do too. I haven't figured it all out yet, but somehow I know it isn't time to leave just yet. I am still here for a reason. I have considered that it is the possibility of fear, but I know now that isn't it. I will be still and listen. I KNOW GOD IS TRYING TO TELL ME VERY CLEARLY WHAT I AM TO DO. I must have the faith and trust HIM.

BIM

[brownidmom]

bim, How are you? Where are you?
(hope cutter, gnosis and I haven't scared you off!)

No, I'm here, Gardener. I was trying to respond to you and Gnosis and had some technical difficulties with the quote boxes. I still haven't figured out how to do more than one box in the same response, though I've tried it several different ways.

No, I appreciated the thoughtful and heartfelt responses from all of you. Just hard to believe some of the crap the WAS have done in our sitches and what we have endured, eh?

Look up, I think you might have missed my response to you.

Waiting for another 2x4, Gardener!

BIM

[Gardener]

bim,

It is different hearing my own words from someone else's pov. Thank you for mirroring it back for me. Looks even more grave from over here.

You're welcome. I care. WE care. And you're right: It is grave; good word.

While clearing some things up, I do believe you're basing some arguments on some threadbare technicalities, though.

From your explanation, he sure did a lot of true good for you in the beginning. I'm glad. But the present, bim. The probable future, bim, Past good doesn't give him a free pass for present or future inexcusable actions and attitudes to the one he supposedly loves more than anyone in this world.

The words of your family physician made me worry more about you, your essence, as she put it almost more than anything else. She was giving you a warning, bim. A prediction. A diagnosis.

The THING that I KNOW after all this time, after all these years, is that I will be okay and my boys will be okay. There isn't anything I won't do to make sure they are better than just ok.

I am not THERE yet. I am not ready to walk away just yet. I know there is something that is left undone. Once I know that, I will move on. I am already moving forward, but I will move on when I know it is time. I just know that day is not today.

Okay. I understand.

And yes, most of us are here because one way or another we took or gave some sh!t from/to our spouses. And, like you, for longer than we should have. But your words just describe unrelenting abuse.

Maybe an ultimatum or being a WAW when you're ready will be his wake-up call..
Stay open minded, stay focused on the mental, emotional health of you and your boys. Stay here.

But regardless of the solution (and patience and hoping ain't gonna cut it), you're sooner rather than later going to have to choose an appropriate proactive solution and act on it before too much longer.

(((lovinghugs))) AND still [[[[2x4s]]]

[Gardener]

bim,
Just hijacked your hijack over at Serenity's.
Good night, friend.

[Gnosis]

BIM, thanks for responding. As for the lie detector test accuracy, I agree with you. I really wish that the stupid machine had done it's job. If you'll pardon me for saying so, I think your H is a mule.

I don't have a thread of my own up yet... I've been distracted by reading other peoples threads and learning from them so far. Almost any question I had was answered so I've not been motivated to type out my situation.

Keep working on your boundaries and stand up for yourself. You're a good person and I hope the scales fall out of your H's eyes soon.

[Gnosis]

About the quoting, you're not ending the quotes correctly this is why they're not showing.

[ quote] place text here [ /quote]

Remove the spaces between the square brackets. You need that slash at the end quote for it to work. Another way to do it is to click the "Switch to full reply screen" button at the bottom and click on the " icon.

[brownidmom]

Gnosis~

BIM, thanks for responding. As for the lie detector test accuracy, I agree with you. I really wish that the stupid machine had done it's job. If you'll pardon me for saying so, I think your H is a mule. .

Yep, it was a most disturbing day when the results were received. I just couldn't believe it. After I read up on how those actually work, I knew exactly what had happened. I told H after the test that the examiner confused me with some test questions and that I felt misled by his explanations. Thinking he is a mule is a much nicer thought than some of the words I have used in my thoughts when thinking of him. I used to think he was the best person I had ever met. Seems like so long ago now.

Keep working on your boundaries and stand up for yourself. You're a good person and I hope the scales fall out of your H's eyes soon.

Thanks, me too. I have rededicated myself to God and have felt more peace in the last 24 hours than I have in a very long time. I still have no idea where this will all lead, but I do have faith that we will all be okay, great even. Since the only actions I know for sure that are to be taken at this time are setting boundaries and taking excellent care of myself and my boys, I will just STAND AND BE until I know what my next step is to be.

Today, our 11th anniversary, we took the boys to the movies and to eat afterwards. When we got home, I gave my H a quick peck on the lips and simply said, "A kiss for you on our anniversary." I had absolutely no expectations in response, for I had no reason to do it other than for myself and to honor my beliefs. I know it wasn't DBing the way it is intended, but I know that it was the right thing to do, for me.

Yep, I feel better than I have in a long time. I am thankful for all that I have and for all that is to come. GOD is good.

BIM

[Gardener]

bim,

Yep, it was a most disturbing day when the results were received. I just couldn't believe it. After I read up on how those actually work, I knew exactly what had happened. I told H after the test that the examiner confused me with some test questions and that I felt misled by his explanations.

Wait a minnit! You did take a lie detector test? And failed? I missed that in your posts. I thought you had simply offered to. That must've sucked and caused you some serious grief with the Mule!