It's too hard sometimes

[TooLateForMe]

And, ever the one to worry about how I'm being interpreted, I followed up w/:

The previous email will likely set you off again and convince you I'm trying to make you miserable. I can deal with DD13's reaction to what I said on my own. Instead of telling me what I did wrong, in the future pretend you think I'm a human being and tell me her reaction and I can deal with that on my own. My conversation was with her, not you.

By no contact, I meant no phone contact. I had planned a period of no phoning, but I didn't make that clear. Simply, I don't want to hear your voice. Take that personally if you want, but I am making progress detaching and it is difficult to hear you speak. A simple solution is to speak with the girls in a separate room from you.

I don't want to upset the girls, but I'm not going to be lectured. Tell me how DD13 or DD10 is feeling or even how you are feeling and I will respond appropriately. I can be sympathetic to your situation, but I'm done with the aggression. Period. The last email and this one weren't intended to be aggressive, just assertive.

Also, doesn't it concern you that DD13 is sick so often?

DD13 has missed a fair amount of school due to "illness." I think a lot of it is due to the sitch. And W's general laziness of late, in that she would rather DDs stay home than fight about it if they claim to be ill.

[Gardener]

This f/u is great. Laid it out bluntly in no uncertain terms. I like it.
Good for you.

[TooLateForMe]

This f/u is great. Laid it out bluntly in no uncertain terms. I like it.
Good for you.

Thanks, I'm slowly "getting it." Boundaries.

And likely I won't hear back from her for a good long time. She's pretty much convinced I only exist to destroy her happiness. Suits me fine, I need some NC.

[bluerain]

I like it, way to stand up for yourself!

What, you mean your sole purpose in life ISNT to make your W unhappy? I thought that that was all of us LBS's mission in life!

[Coach]

And, ever the one to worry about how I'm being interpreted, I followed up w/:

The previous email will likely set you off again and convince you I'm trying to make you miserable. this is you mind reading, read up on cognitive dissonance I can deal with DD13's reaction to what I said on my own. Instead of telling me what I did wrong, your wife is a adult and can choose to tell you whatevr she wants, this is a controlling statement by you in the future pretend you think I'm a human being once again you are assuming what she thinks, very condesending and controlling and tell me her reaction and I can deal with that on my own. Just say this, I can deal with it myself My conversation was with her, not you.

By no contact, I meant no phone contact. I had planned a period of no phoning, but I didn't make that clear. so there is a communicaion problem Simply, I don't want to hear your voice. how do you think that sounded to her? Take that personally if you want now you are telling her what to do, no reason to say this, she can take it however she wants , but I am making progress detaching and it is difficult to hear you speak. Don't tell her show her A simple solution is to speak with the girls in a separate room from you.

I don't want to upset the girls, but I'm not going to be lectured. but you lecture her Tell me how DD13 or DD10 is feeling or even how you are feeling and I will respond appropriately. Why would she because you mind read - you tell her what she is thinking and feeling I can be sympathetic to your situation, but I'm done with the aggression. Your actions speak otherwise Period. The last email and this one weren't intended to be aggressive, just assertive. you missed the mark

Also, doesn't it concern you that DD13 is sick so often? that's a passive-agresive comment

DD13 has missed a fair amount of school due to "illness." I think a lot of it is due to the sitch. And W's general laziness of late, in that she would rather DDs stay home than fight about it if they claim to be ill. since you know everything your wife thinks then why does she need to respond

You think for your wife. Marriage killer. Read up on validating and boundaries. You can handle it
Cheers

[Gardener]

[quote=Mark Evolving]And, ever the one to worry about how I'm being interpreted, I followed up w/:

The previous email will likely set you off again and convince you I'm trying to make you miserable. this is you mind reading, read up on cognitive dissonance I can deal with DD13's reaction to what I said on my own. Instead of telling me what I did wrong, your wife is a adult and can choose to tell you whatevr she wants, this is a controlling statement by you in the future pretend you think I'm a human being once again you are assuming what she thinks, very condesending and controlling and tell me her reaction and I can deal with that on my own. Just say this, I can deal with it myself My conversation was with her, not you.

By no contact, I meant no phone contact. I had planned a period of no phoning, but I didn't make that clear. so there is a communicaion problem Simply, I don't want to hear your voice. how do you think that sounded to her? Take that personally if you want now you are telling her what to do, no reason to say this, she can take it however she wants , but I am making progress detaching and it is difficult to hear you speak. Don't tell her show her A simple solution is to speak with the girls in a separate room from you.

I don't want to upset the girls, but I'm not going to be lectured. but you lecture her Tell me how DD13 or DD10 is feeling or even how you are feeling and I will respond appropriately. Why would she because you mind read - you tell her what she is thinking and feeling I can be sympathetic to your situation, but I'm done with the aggression. Your actions speak otherwise Period. The last email and this one weren't intended to be aggressive, just assertive. you missed the mark

Also, doesn't it concern you that DD13 is sick so often? that's a passive-agresive comment

DD13 has missed a fair amount of school due to "illness." I think a lot of it is due to the sitch. And W's general laziness of late, in that she would rather DDs stay home than fight about it if they claim to be ill. since you know everything your wife thinks then why does she need to respond

As usual, Coach is right. Color me embarrassed (and educated once again).

[TooLateForMe]

And, ever the one to worry about how I'm being interpreted, I followed up w/:

The previous email will likely set you off again and convince you I'm trying to make you miserable. this is you mind reading, read up on cognitive dissonance I can deal with DD13's reaction to what I said on my own. Instead of telling me what I did wrong, your wife is a adult and can choose to tell you whatevr she wants, this is a controlling statement by you in the future pretend you think I'm a human being once again you are assuming what she thinks, very condesending and controlling and tell me her reaction and I can deal with that on my own. Just say this, I can deal with it myself My conversation was with her, not you.

By no contact, I meant no phone contact. I had planned a period of no phoning, but I didn't make that clear. so there is a communicaion problem Simply, I don't want to hear your voice. how do you think that sounded to her? Take that personally if you want now you are telling her what to do, no reason to say this, she can take it however she wants , but I am making progress detaching and it is difficult to hear you speak. Don't tell her show her A simple solution is to speak with the girls in a separate room from you.

I don't want to upset the girls, but I'm not going to be lectured. but you lecture her Tell me how DD13 or DD10 is feeling or even how you are feeling and I will respond appropriately. Why would she because you mind read - you tell her what she is thinking and feeling I can be sympathetic to your situation, but I'm done with the aggression. Your actions speak otherwise Period. The last email and this one weren't intended to be aggressive, just assertive. you missed the mark

Also, doesn't it concern you that DD13 is sick so often? that's a passive-agresive comment

DD13 has missed a fair amount of school due to "illness." I think a lot of it is due to the sitch. And W's general laziness of late, in that she would rather DDs stay home than fight about it if they claim to be ill. since you know everything your wife thinks then why does she need to respond

You think for your wife. Marriage killer. Read up on validating and boundaries. You can handle it
Cheers

She doesn't need to respond. But I get what you're saying. The "making her miserable" attitude comes from specific evidence. She's said as much.

Telling her I don't want to hear her voice is an honest reaction to why D13 thinks I snapped at her. I told D not to talk about W and to go into the other room to talk to me. D didn't like this (evidence: she got off the phone fast after that, and I got the email from W that night).

I have a history of snapping, so all emotions that come from me are assumed to be anger. But I wanted it clear I don't want to be attacked, I want to be consulted about the facts. I was once treated with that kind of respect but not any longer.

Advice on how to specify boundaries w/out coming across as aggressive would be greatly appreciated. I don't need to show her detachment as I don't think a reconciliation is ever going to happen. I'm just beginning to figure out my own boundaries and need them communicated w/out extra drama. I'm also done apologizing to her.

If that was aggressive, what would be an assertive way to say the same?

[gucci loafer]

If that was aggressive, what would be an assertive way to say the same

There is no assertive way in this case unless you want both your wife and daughter to keep on believing you are still a "snapper." I highly doubt that being assertive would do much other than your WS and daughter talking about "well, that is just the way he is" and then shutting down more emotionally to you. "Daddy is sensitive and doesn't think he sounds to you like he really comes across when he is angry"

Now.. I think you could make a case about being assertive if you would have done something like this....

"Ok WS, I WILL have a talk with daughter. I certainly can understand how she would feel that I snapped at her and I don't want her to feel that way about me. I will handle it.


And THEN... Actually have a talk with your daughter and ASK her how she felt about the conversation. Allow her to tell you her side and feelings to her own reality to the conversation. Clear it up. Apologize if necessary.

You may gain both respect and empathy with your daugher AND you WS. I would think that your daughter would confide to your WS that "daddy apologized". Not a word needs to be said to the WS.

Then put it behind you and move on and focus on being a happy, mature man. I would call THAT assertive.

[Coach]

If that was aggressive, what would be an assertive way to say the same

There is no assertive way in this case unless you want both your wife and daughter to keep on believing you are still a "snapper." I highly doubt that being assertive would do much other than your WS and daughter talking about "well, that is just the way he is" and then shutting down more emotionally to you. "Daddy is sensitive and doesn't think he sounds to you like he really comes across when he is angry"

Now.. I think you could make a case about being assertive if you would have done something like this....

"Ok WS, I WILL have a talk with daughter. ACTION I certainly can understand how she would feel validation that I snapped at her and I don't want her to feel that way about me. accountability I will handle it. confidence and moving forward


And THEN... Actually have a talk with your daughter and ASK her how she felt about the conversation. Allow her to tell you her side and feelings to her own reality to the conversation. Clear it up. Apologize if necessary.

You may gain both respect and empathy with your daugher AND you WS. I would think that your daughter would confide to your WS that "daddy apologized". Not a word needs to be said to the WS.

Then put it behind you and move on and focus on being a happy, mature man. I would call THAT assertive.

Say what you are going to do and do it. Take care of business. You can handle it.

Cheers

[TooLateForMe]

I actually explained to D13 before I said anything to W. That was handled with sensitivity and respect. I can manage that w/ the girls.

My initial wish was to simply ignore W, but then suddenly felt the need to draw my own line in the sand. My former codependent W is now very aggressive and over-reactive to any behavior she sees (often inaccurately) as an attack on her. I just wanted to communicate that she needs to tell me how she feels instead of attacking me and telling me how to behave.

I don't need the trust from her that that might imply, just the civility. The fact that she hasn't and probably won't reply to the email is actually nice for me. I don't want contact w/ her for a long while. I do need that detachment. I realize that I can't control how she feels or what she thinks. I'll let her be mad. Reconciliation feels like a fairy tale right now, so I'll concentrate on more believable goals.

Thanks for the advice per the email. I will keep that in mind in the future. For now, I'm working on me and hopefully that will make some difference in the R, but saving the R isn't the goal any more. Saving me is.