Is this the end of my marriage?

[chatterbug]

I know what your saying Puppy. My whole family knows as does her's
All our close friends know... So no doubt do all their close friends. Its a ton of people.

[sandi2]

The letter sounds much better and you sound a lot more strong and determined. I would say to stay away from FB and making any statements. It is disrespectful and it would cause more bad feelings and draw many more people into it until it would sure 'nuff be a mess! Some people get on there and start slinging mud, so don't open any door for that, and "if" she were to make any remarks, just try not to respond.

The things you've told us about her lately does seem like a move in the right direction......but I think it is too soon to tell. My first thoughts was where was OM while she was gone? Maybe things are not quite as rosey as it appears. And then...there is a possibility that she had found out she made the worst mistake of her life and wants to go back home to you and D. But we could play the guessing game all night and it's just too soon to know. But this is why I told you to make real sure that you wanted to send that letter before it's gone. I don't see a hard rush on it, do you? I think you can wait a little longer and at least watch to see if she continues to move closer to you & D and farther away from OM.

It's your call, but I think you were chosing to send the NC letter b/c you don't feel that you can deal with the pain any longer and you see that as your only way out of the pain. It probably did give you some release for a few days, but in the letter....you are talking the possibility of a lifetime. I won't say it would not be easier with NC....but I doubt it would completely stop the pain. That takes a long time. Just throwing some thoughts out there for ya.

[P17]

Some people get on there and start slinging mud, so don't open any door for that, and "if" she were to make any remarks, just try not to respond.

Okay. I can't see her or his page anyway so I wouldn't know about any remarks.

The things you've told us about her lately does seem like a move in the right direction......but I think it is too soon to tell. My first thoughts was where was OM while she was gone?

I actually found out last night .. or at least my D overheard her on the phone saying WE had a good time away so the OM obviously went with her. That's the beauty of not working for a living.

But this is why I told you to make real sure that you wanted to send that letter before it's gone. I don't see a hard rush on it, do you? I think you can wait a little longer and at least watch to see if she continues to move closer to you & D and farther away from OM.

I agree it can wait a little longer.

I just don't see a move back to me and D when I speak to her on her own. Her actions are just STRANGE. When she is here, as I've said before, it's like she never left. She looks comfortable, laughing, having fun, sitting next to the fire. I don't mean that in a good way at all. I don't look at her and go, ah this is lovely. I look at her and go "if you said you could never come back to this house as it holds too many bad memories, why are you so relaxed here". It feel strange and uncomfortable for me. As Puppy said, it's normalising though.

As a perfect example, last night I was going out. I asked her if I looked okay and rather than just saying yes, she told me I would look better in a white shirt. You're probably thinking it's irrelevant but I just thought at the time, if it was me, I'd just have said yes rather than give her fashion advice. We are no longer together. We don't do that kind of stuff anymore. It was just strange. Like she thought nothing had changed. Maybe's this is normal for WAS though.

It's your call, but I think you were chosing to send the NC letter b/c you don't feel that you can deal with the pain any longer and you see that as your only way out of the pain.

I will be absolutely honest here - you are right. One of the reasons I am sending the letter is that I can't really deal with this anymore. It is a LOT easier than it was even a few weeks ago but it's still difficult as I'm sure everybody understands.

However I also see that what I am doing here is simply accepting her A with the OM. I'm saying, hey it's fine you left us but you can come back and we will all be pals and then you can leave and go back to OM. Regardless of what I have said to her she KNOWS I still love her and would take her back. She currently has two men loving / fighting for her, a step-D that she get's to see regularly, two houses, etc. etc. etc. You tell me what person wouldn't want to have their cake and eat it.

The OM has sex on tap, a woman who is paying for everything, has her own house, car, friends, job, pays for everything and is out of the house 2-3 nights of the week. Tell me what person wouldn't want that either. He is not going anywhere until somebody pushes him out the door.

So I'm doing this primarily for me and my D so that we can move on. I'm also doing this to stop her cake eating and realise that her actions actually have consequences. I'm finally also doing this because nothing else I have tried has actually worked.

It probably did give you some release for a few days, but in the letter....you are talking the possibility of a lifetime. I won't say it would not be easier with NC....but I doubt it would completely stop the pain. That takes a long time.

I keep looking back to the period only a few weeks ago where there was NC for about 10 days. I felt great during that period. The start was difficult but I quickly started to like things again. I also started having stronger and better feelings for the W rather than feelings of being scared and worried. I had 'mature' feelings (for want of a better phrase). That felt good. I also felt I had detached better. After the 10 days she was due to come around for a visit with my D and I fell apart again. This for me was the final nail in the coffin. It proved to me that NC is what *I* need.

Just throwing some thoughts out there for ya.

This is exactly why I'm here. And I really appreciate it.

[P17]

I didn't want to add this to Sandi's post, so I thought I'd add it here.

My D told me last night that my W was looking for tweezers, said she was going to my office, disappeared for 5 minutes, went back to the bathroom (where my D was having a shower), said she was going to make a phone call and then went into the hall for two minutes on the phone. Sounds fishy.

Her claim that she was looking for tweezers is just implausible (why would I have tweezers in my office and as a woman who carries everything around with her that she would ever need, she would have them anyway). I asked her about it today and she said she was looking for tweezers and wasn't snooping. Gut says she's lying. So I can't trust her in the house herself.

She could have been going through my bedroom to see if there is any evidence of another woman (there's not as I don't have one). But nothing in the bedroom or the office looks like it has actually been moved.

I also heard through the grapevine that the sun has well and truly fell from her behind in work - her own staff are bitching about her now which is unheard of! They were overheard saying 'she has changed' and 'we can't do anything right for her'.

Finally, I also suspect she is starting to drink heavily. This is just a gut instinct and 2 and 2 maybe making 5, but the gut hasn't been wrong yet. The OM is a heavy drinker as is her mother. She also has an addictive personality.

I wanted to run this past you guys as if I hang off on the letter I need to establish a boundary - she doesn't go into ANY room where the door is shut (which is why the door is shut). I actually thought that would be common sense especially after our talk about building up trust again.

Suggestions?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

P,

I would simply remind her that your room is off-limits, and that you expect her to respect your privacy.

Then, when she's not home, YOU go thru your office (and your car would be wise as well), and -- much as you would "child-proof" a home when a toddler arrives -- "WW-proof" it. Make sure there's nothing you wouldn't want her to find.

Finally, if you want to have some fun, two ideas:

1. take your own business card, if you have one, and write on the back of it "Kim 5pm Fri." and nothing else. Leave it where you might normally empty your pockets at the end of the day, but don't be TOO obvious about it.

(alt. version: add the name of a LOCATION to the note -- like a pub -- and show up 30 minutes before the appointed time, park your car and wait for your wife to show up, LOL. Do NOT answer your cellphone when she calls you).

2. Put a piece of paper in your desk, folded in half, that says "(WIFE) -- I asked you not to look thru my things. Really, it is SOOOOO petty and unattractive! :o)" -- with the smiley face.

She's fishing. Be sure you have no bait she can find.

Puppy

[P17]

I would simply remind her that your room is off-limits, and that you expect her to respect your privacy.

I'll do that when she is next here. I was going to speak to her about it on the phone but I just thought it would be better coming from me in person.

Then, when she's not home, YOU go thru your office (and your car would be wise as well), and -- much as you would "child-proof" a home when a toddler arrives -- "WW-proof" it. Make sure there's nothing you wouldn't want her to find.

There are a few things she could be snooping for - financial information in here about my business. That would be pointless as if she wants to go for that in the D, I would have to provide evidence anyway. My business accounts are public record so I have nothing, and cannot have anything, to hide there.

Snooping for evidence of another woman. In the drawer by my bed I actually have condoms that I recently bought. This was for no other purpose than trying to be cautious and safe. I had no real intention of using them but I just didn't want to be caught in a stupid situation and make it worse. We all drink. We all make mistakes. We all do things we shouldn't. I just wanted to be safe.

Over the last few times she's been here I have been doing roughly what you suggested - make her a little jealous / suspicious. I asked a friend to call me last night and answered the phone 'Hi sweetheart' as I walked out the door (so as not to make it too obvious). Sending texts while she is here and laughing at them. My D telling her we were going out with one of daddy's 'friend and HER D' etc. My W said last night about her home number being in my D's new phone and I told her I wouldn't need it. So I've been playing detached / hard to get a little IYSWIM. I have been faking it ... but it's better than nothing.

Maybe it's having an effect. You can't get jealous about somebody you have no interest in.

The only other possible explanation is her looking for the letters my D wrote her about how much she misses her. I believe she is going to go to Social Services and try and get contact without myself or D's mum being involved. She may have been wanting copies. Earlier that night she took a photo of something my D drew for her that I never even thought twice about but now it makes sense. I also showed her another letter my D wrote to her telling her how upset she has been and my W went to take it away, I took it back, told her I'd give her a copy and then she asked 'when' ... I got the impression there was a deadline she needed it by.

It's just all very strange. I'd love to know what is going through her mind.

However as you said, I need to WW proof my house as she is up to SOMETHING.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

My guess is she's responding to your mysteriousness (jealousy). But be careful regardless.

Puppy

[P17]

PDT,

Throughout this whole saga I've learned one thing - trust your instincts. My gut has yet to be wrong in this situation.

A friend did suggest letting me borrow one of her 'sexy' bra's and panties to put in my bedroom or car glove box - I thought that was maybe going a bit overboard. This is a subtle line between imagination and revelation

[jumpyninja]

P17

It seems like your actions have done two things, one given you a newfound sense of strength, and two, possibly piqued the interest of W. That's a good thing, but let's keep things in perspective.
NC is a tool to help you cope with an unpleasant situation. The goal is to strengthen you. That should be your ONLY goal. Anything else is an added benefit but is not necessary and should not be expected.
Now, her unusual behaviors could definitely be interpreted as a rekindled interest from her. And admittedly, there is nothing more flattering than being pursued, especially by someone you love who recently rejected you. However, try not to get too caught up in that, because that will unnecessarily raise your expectations, and that is not a good thing right now. And because of that, DO NOT go from using the NC to strengthen yourself to a tool for getting back a WW. This is not a game, and you need not play games. While I fully endorse doing things to end and A (such as notifying close friends, family, etc), and doing things to force someone to get off the fence, be careful not to let this overwhelm and consume you. You don't want to start doing things slowly to give her a false impression. Not only is is deceitful, but you will become more preoccupied with that than building yourself up. Remember, build yourself up first and then worry about her. Like I said before, that relationship will fall apart. It's simply a matter of whether the strong P17 will want her back.
Good luck and stay strong.

[P17]

It seems like your actions have done two things, one given you a newfound sense of strength, and two, possibly piqued the interest of W. That's a good thing, but let's keep things in perspective.

It has. But only if our thinking is right and that a) she was snooping (which I am almost certain she was - gut instinct) and b) she was looking for evidence of another woman (which I'm not sure about but can't logically think of anything else that would be of use / interest to her).

NC is a tool to help you cope with an unpleasant situation. The goal is to strengthen you. That should be your ONLY goal. Anything else is an added benefit but is not necessary and should not be expected.

I have been thinking about this lately. Even if she decided to come back or show an interest in coming back I think, given the way I feel, that I really need this time for me to think about what I really want. Do I want my W back and my marriage - absolutely YES, but how do I want to go about it, how would I like it to be (because it can never be the same as it was before), how would I want things to work in the dynamic between us ... etc.

Now, her unusual behaviors could definitely be interpreted as a rekindled interest from her. And admittedly, there is nothing more flattering than being pursued, especially by someone you love who recently rejected you. However, try not to get too caught up in that, because that will unnecessarily raise your expectations, and that is not a good thing right now.

To be honest I'm not entirely sure it is a renewed interest in me at all. I think it may be a simple reaction to me pulling further away from her slowly (for example when she comes to spend time with my D, I go upstairs and leave them to it, I dismissed her trying to give me her home phone number, no R talk, being upbeat, being friendly, etc.) - nothing more than human nature. Or it could be simply that she knows when I pull away I will take D with me and she is scared of that.

While I fully endorse doing things to end and A (such as notifying close friends, family, etc), and doing things to force someone to get off the fence, be careful not to let this overwhelm and consume you.

The NC for me is to heal myself and my D. I would be lying if I said that I also hoped it would bring her closer but I know I can't control her actions. If she chooses to follow, great. I don't think she will.

You don't want to start doing things slowly to give her a false impression.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

Remember, build yourself up first and then worry about her.

The only surefire way for me to do that is NC. I have been building myself up, as you said above, by my state of mind / happiness is still based on her perceived unhappiness. At least I realise that and can do something about it. It is still unhealthy.

Like I said before, that relationship will fall apart. It's simply a matter of whether the strong P17 will want her back.
Good luck and stay strong.

Thanks jumpyninja. I do want to save my marriage, but I want to TRY and do it. There are no guarantees I will end up with it that way.