My sit is like most other post I have read here. it all begane july 3rd. I had taken the week of work after the 4th of july planing on having a great week. with friends and family. We have for the last several year had a big celebration with fireworks, a D.J. and lots of friends and neighbors over to enjoy the 4th. Our next door neighbor always has a lot of his family visit during this week. We live on a lake and always have a lot of fun. however this year I could tell there was something wrong with my wife the night before the 4th. She was in our bedroon crying and i went and ask her what was wrong that is when I got the ILYBNILWY speach. I was devasted and sugested we go se a MC but she said she would not, that it would only make things worse. She said she wanted a seperation and that she wanted me to stay at her mother's house when her mother went back to her home in MI. W said she had changed and was not happy any more being married to me. I asked her if she thought we could work it out and all she would say was I don't know. So what was supposed to be a great week turned out to be the worst week of my life. So during the next week I made all the mistakes other people seem to make in this situation- following my wife around, asking if she has changed her mind, buying her flowers all the pursuing behavier. One evening we were talking about the situation again and she said we could get a divorce and still be friends afterwards,that we could split custody of the kids 50/50 and no one would have to pay child support. I told my wife I did not want to get divorced and if we did I did not think I could be friendly about it. I also got mad and told her that if she wanted a seperation she could move in to her mom's house. She then said in that case we could go ahead and get divorce lawyers and get a divorce so I ageed to move to her moms house in a couple of weeks when her mom went back to MI. I was determined to save our marraige so I wrote W a letter saying I was sorry for the things i had done wrong and not showing her the afection that she had said I had quit showing her. Also said that I knew that things had been tough for us the last few years but i thought they would get better and I had looked foward to growing old with her and that she was the love of my life. I told my wife that it would be best for the kids if we stayed married. She had said in one of our previous discussion it would be better for the kids if we divorced because they knew we were not happy together. Anyway the next morning she had left me a letter in responce to my letter saying basicly the marraige was over and she wanted a divorce. She also had left a letter that she had written me in 2002 saying she was unhappy that I had completly forgotten about. In 2002 letter she had said she had had to be the one that took care of everything when her dad had died and her brotherinlaw had died,that she had not had time to grieve because her mother expected her to handle every thing. She also said that she was tired of her sister living with us and wanted her to move out. She said that she felt like a fith wheel in the relationship between me and our son and that she felt that I would rather spend time with her sister than with her. I can't remember exactly how I had responded to this letter but I do know that we had her sister move out shortly after this. Also shortly after this we adopted our secound child, a little girl , and that was quite an adventure as her mother had been on heroin and another couple had backed out when they found this out. So we were happy for a time when the adoption was done, however it was some hard times as well because our adoptive daughter had heroin in her system when she was born and she did not sleep very well at night. so one of us was up with her pretty much every night. Then about 3 years later W decided we should have a pool put in and remodel the house. So we had pool put in and the house was remodeled on the outside mostly. So over the next 3 -4 years I was working on the house with my next door neighbors help. We did every thing from tearing the old roof off and putting a higher pitch roof back on to a front porch that runs the length of the house with a screen porch on the side of the house, also put new siding on the house,put a roof over a deck to make it a porch on the back of the house, built 2 new decks one with a fire pit and then relandscaped the whole yard. After the outside was done i started inside upstairs where I turned 2 bedrooms, 2 closets and a hallway into one big bedroom, 1 big closet a smaller closet and a linnen closet. I did all the work myself except for electrical. All of this was completed in june 2008 and every thing seemed to be fine between me and W during this time. However we were in realy deep dept. Wife has always handled finances and when ever I asked whether we could aford a new phase of renovation she would say we could. We even refinanced during all the work because we had maxed all the credit cards and put credit card dept into house morgage. I told W that we needed to cut up all the credit cards so we would not get in such dept again, she agreed. However credit cards were not cut up , we are back in bigger dept than ever before and I started seing credit card bills with my name on them that I had not applied for. WE went through almost a year were I was just finding out how bad the dept was but W was getting depresses because she did not know what to do about it, Colection agencies were calling our work and our home. W hired a law firm that was suposed to deal with the colection agencies and all calls were suposed to go to them. we decide W would get part time job because she is in health care field and she could make alot more money than me.W already makes about 3 times what I make at our reagular jobs. Anyway now W wants divorce, already had divorce papers drawn up and gave them to me Oct 23. I told her i would not sign them until some things wer changed, she got furius about this. Last week she sent e-mail wanting both of us to file backrupcy seperately and get a divorce after bankrupcy. I have an appointment with lawyer I have been seeing on monday. I know this is a long post and ther is alot more information I need to share and probably some unneeded information but I need some advise. I have read DR and also went through 9 sesions with DB coach[last was over a month ago]can't afford any more right now. There is very little communicatiom between me & W right now. She keeps kids for a week then I have them for a week. I really do miss my W and I really do love her and would give any thing in the world to make this work out. I am posting at work and probably cant post again until monday because computer at home died. Anyone with advise and questions please respond. It really seams like my wife hates me now,I know I have made some mistakes in the marraige and probably haven't given my wife the love and support she needed But I think it is sad to throw our marraige away because of this with out even trying to work things out. I don't know if their is OM involved,I have had suppision about this but can't prove anything. someome please help. thanks for listening ME-48 W-45 S17 D7 Married 20
Cause all of the stars, Have faded away, Just try not to worry, You'll see them someday. Take what you need, And be on your way and, Stop crying your heart out.
I'm sorry you find yourself here and where you are in your marriage. But, this is a great place for advice, to vent and to get questions answered.
So, can you tell us a little more of what you think your part was in the problems? You said you did not show your wife love and affection. Can you be a little more specific? What were your wife's complaints before, if any?
What have you done so far to change the behaviors you needed to change?
As far as a possible OM, what has caused you to have suspicions? Have you seen anything out of the ordinary in your wife that raised your suspicion?
Have you already moved out of your house? If you haven't, DO NOT MOVE OUT. She wants the change, she wants the divorce, she moves out, not you.
Here is a list I found early on in my sitch, and I review it all the time:
1. Don't panic. No-one ever made a great decision when in panic. You WILL panic, it's natural, but take NO ACTION when you are in that state. You have to do whatever it takes to calm down before you can tackle ANYTHING.
2. Don't despair. No-one ever got divorced in a week. Divorce, although too easy these days still take time. you DO have time to turn things about.
3. You first step is not to rebuild your R. Of course it's your ultimate aim but it's not going to happen first. Your very first step is to put the seed of doubt in WAS's mind. They have been unhappy and they consider D to be the answer. It's your job to show them that maybe there is an alternative. And I stress show. There is little you can do to talk them out of this beyond sympathysing with their unhappiness and saying that IF D will make them happy then you won't stand in their way. If they are receptive to that, you could go further and say something like "we have had many good times together. Please think about this and make sure it really will make you happy. It's a lot to throw away".
4. Once you have said this back off and let them consider it. They need time. Your next step is GAL - no begging, crying or anger AT ALL. Your task is now part 2 of sowing the seeds of doubt about D - SHOWING WAS that things can be different. Now is the time to step back, put aside your ego and all thoughts of how unfair it all is (that just leads to bitterness, which is poison to a M) and REALLY look at yourself and decide if you are worthy of being WAS's spouse. I agree a M breakdown is rarely one sided but at this juncture it's more useful to look at your contribution. Look at yourself. Under a microscope. Decide if you've changed - are you happy with yourself, for you? Make changes. Now is the time for 180's. This stage also takes a long time too.
5. Time, time, time - it really IS on your side. The situation will not resolve as quickly as you hope. Don't compare your situation in terms of time with others'. It's very tempting to say "well, their situation is similar to mine and it took them 6 months so it will take me 6 months". Each situation is unique and needs its own time frame.
6. Set your goals and decide on your first signs. This part took me a couple of months to really "get". I had to REALLY read chapter 6 of DR from "I'm discouraged" then go and review my goals before I saw any results.
7. Develop a duck's back - water slides off it. Patience + lack of panic = success.
8. Set goals for yourself as well as the R. Decide on what you want to achieve for you alone and reward your success. I know this sounds like step 4 again but it's more a case of making the changes rather than lamenting how awful you are. (I felt awful about myself for some time - bad and guilty. I did me no favours whatsoever, ended up with me feeling resentment. Much better to look forward than back - as Michelle says, look for solutions and take action)
9. Keep in mind that your actions could be frightening to WAS - you are not reacting in the way they wanted. They had this D all mapped out in their head and it's not panning out the way they thought. This has the added benefit that it leads them to think "if this isn't going the way I planned then maybe it isn't right", but it will take them a LONG TIME to come to this conclusion, to let go of their D comfort blanket. You can help them by being consistent with the positive changes. If you revert back to the you they find unacceptable then they feel perfectly justified in continuing with the D.
10. This is going to be tough on you. In the ideal world, couples in crisis would sit down together and negotiate together and accept that change was possible. In reality, you are very unlikely to resolve your problem in this way, almost certianly not in the early stages. You are not giong to have the luxury of a spouse who will listen to you and accept what you say. You are going to be in extreme pain. You have to find something to soothe this. To have your WAS would work like a shot, but you ain't going to get this in a hurry. Do whatever it takes to comfort yourself - write a diary, see friends, go places, take the kids out if you have them, take exercise - anything. Your aim is to find something which makes you say "well, the rest of my life may be turning to sh*t but at least this part of it's OK". It acts as a time out for you and relieves the stress.
Gynandtonix Sorry about the way this is written I have limited typing & computer skills. Also started reading some of your post, sorry to hear your situation and I keep you in my prayers.
wmp, very sry you find yourself here. You will find great support here. Take a deep breath. Stop chasing after her. Avoid R talks. When there is contact stay calm and upbeat. Keep it brief at first to help deter any R talks. Remember you can only control yourself, not her.
It was difficult to read thru ur posting. You said you had some DB coaching and read over DR?
Most importantly take care of your children and yourself! Its good you contacted an atty so yu are protected.
PainfulDusk I am taking care of my kids I have always tried to spend quality time with them. I am also try to take care of myself, I have lost about 20lbs.,started exercising and started back going to church[I also take the kids when I have them]. As far as pursuing behavier I havn't done that in over a month. Me and WAW.have very little communucation now and most of the time its thru text messages.She did send me a e-mail Oct 29th saying that she wanted us to file for bankrupcy. She said she had talked to bankrucy lawyer and it would be best for us to file seperatly and that I would need to file 1st and that she would not file for 3 months because salary from part time job would not show up then.That is the reason I am seeing lawyer today. WAW wants to keep the house and if there is any equity in the house I should be entitled to half, so I have to find out if I could get any equity from the house if its tied up in bankrupsy.WAW says she wants to get the D. done right after bankrupsy is settled WAW had already had divorce papers drawn up and gave them to me Oct 23rd. I did not react very well when she brought the divorce papers. I told her that we could still work this out but she said no we couldn't and said she had been trying to get me to change for the last 10 years. I ask her how she had tried to get me to change and she hept saying she had already told me and she was not going to tell me again and she started heading for her car. I told her to just answer the question and stood between her and the car. she still would not answer so I moved and let her in the car but then stood in front of the car and told her to answer the question. She was threatening to call the sheriff and I let her leave. After this she says she is scared of me and will not be alone with me. I regrett acting this way and would have never done anything to hurt her but I know it only hurt my situation.One reason I think I got so mad was I had also found out that day that she had posted herself on match.com. I asked her about this also and she said her and her friend done this as a joke and she was not using it. I loked the next day on match.com and could not find her on there so I think she took it off. Over the next 2 weeks WAW kept texting wanting to know if I was going to sign the divorce papers. I told her we needed to set down and discuss some things 1st, that is when she told me that she was scared of me and would not meet with me alone, said I should e-mail her my concerns or what I wanted changed. I also had my last 2 sessions with DB coach around this time and told her what had happened. So we came up with plan that I would write WAW a letter stating that I realized that the marraige was over for her and for the last several years the marraige hadn't been a good marraige for her.I also admitted to things I knew that I had done wrong in the marraige and appologozed for the way I acted when she brought me the divorce papers. The DB coach said this may relieve some of the tension between us. I think it would have worked because she texted me a few days later and said she had gotten letter and she apreciated it.But then a few minutes later she texted me wanting to know what I wanted changed in the divorce papers. I texted her back saying I wanted custody of the kids changed from legal joint custody with her primary custodial to true joint custody and that we needed to get the house appraised to find out if there was any equity and that I would be intitled to 1/2 the equity. I also told her that I would e-mail her later with other things I wanted changed because my phone did not have a keyboard and it was to hard to text. This realy seamed to set her off, I started getting text after text from her saying how unfair I was and how there was no equity in the house and that joint custody was joint custody. There were also some remarks putting me down. But every thing that I have done so far that has not followed her plan has really set her off. Another thing that made her really mad was that I had talked to D7's teacher about getting her tested because she is struggling in some areas of her eduacation. WAW had told me at the beginning of school year about D7's teacher had said it would be a good idea to get her tested. So I called teacher and dicussed it with her a couple of times. The teacher had told me we could go thru the public school system[D7 & S17 go to small private school] to have her tested and she could get it started. I talked to several people that had done the same thing and said everything worked out fine. However when I texted my wife and told her this she said I was just trying to udermine her and that she had already made arangement to have D7 tested at private facility.She also stated that the public school system sucked and that she saw a lot of the public school counselers as patients and that most of them were crazy. I asked her why wasn't I involved in this decision she said that I had never wanted to make these kind of decision before so it was just habit on her part not to involve me. Well that is all I can post right now, got to go see lawyer, but thanks for listening. any advice is welcome from anybody.PainfulDusk I haven't read your post yet but I will get around to it. Thanks for responding
I am sorry it has taken me this long to respond to your post but the only computer I have access to right now is at work and had to leave work early yesterday to see lawyer. But to answer some of your questions, you wanted to know what I thought my part was in the problems we were having. Well for one thing WAW had told me at one point that I did not take care of her.This is probably true. I think I held her responcible for the dept we are in since she handled all our finances and she kept saying we could afford all the things we were doing at the house. So I left it up to her to figure out how we were going to get out of dept.I think she got tired of this and working second job. Even though I was taking care of the kids and keeping the house clean I was not giving her the emotional support she needed. I figured if I had spent the all my spare time the 3 years prior to this working on the house she could work a part time job a few years to get us out of dept. It got to the point where she alwys seemed in a bad mood and most evenings when she came home she went straight to the bedroom with little communication between us. Over the last year she realy started to withdraw from the family and I did nothing to find out what the problems were. She had also said several times before she droped the bomb that I didn't show her affection any more. MY usual responce was that she had also quit showing me affection and when she started showing me affection again I would show her affection.
You had also asked what I had done to change the behaviors I need to change. Since we are seperated it has been hard to show WAW affection and that I will be there to take care of her. Also at this point that would probably be persueing behavior. The few times that I do see WAW face to face she seems to be really angry at me and hardly says anything to me. I have been trying to take more responcibility especially with decisions about the kids. I have always done my part and more when it has come to taking care of the children but WAW made most of the dicisions concerning them. We used to dicuss issues before decisions were made, but it seems at some point WAW started making alot of these decision on her own. Recently at the beginning of the school year WAW told me had she had discussed with D7's teacher about getting her tested.[D7 has had trouble learning certain things] I had tried to e-mail teacher a couple of times and got no reply so I called her. WE were discussing D7 and the testing. This just happened to be the evening WAW drove up with divorce papers so I had to cut conversation short with teacher.The teacher had told me that we could get D7 tested through the public school system and it would not cost anything.{D7 and S17 go to small private school] DB coach had also suggested that I look into testing through public school system but WAW had said public school system sucked and she did not want to use them. I mentioned that D7's teacher had said we could get her tested through public school system to my wife and she said she had talked to a private facility about testing. A couple of weeks later I was talking to D7's teacher and she told me that she could go ahead and get things started if we wanted to test through public school system. I had also talked to several people who had their kids tested this way and all of them said every thing went fine. I sent my wife text about what the teacher had told me and she got very angry and said I was just tring to undermine her and that she had already made an apointment for D7 to be tested at private facility. She also said that she saw alot of the public school councelors as patients and that most of them are crazy. She also made a few more rude comments about people that would be involved if D7 was tested through the public school system. I texted WAW and asked why wasn't I involved in the decision that she had made. She texted back and said that I had not wanted to make these kind of decisions for the last 10 years so it was just habit on her part nothing sinister just habit. At this point I called WAW and we got into argument over the phone. I was actually just trying to take more responcibility and help WAW but it seemed to backfire in my face.
You had also wanted to know what may have caused me to be suspicios that there may be OM.
I really don't think there is am OM but at this point I dont think it would supprise me either. But to begin with she was doing a lot of texting and on the computer alot.She said she was talking to her best friend a lot about our situation. Also there was a time that she had gone to the store and when she got home I went out to help her get things out of the car. She told me that all she had bought was new sunglasses. I checked in her car later and found a bag with new pajamas in it. This really made me suspicios because she had told me that she was working that weekend and that the Dr. who owns the clinic she was working at was paying for her to get a motel room so she would not have to drive home Sat. night and then drive back Sun. mourning.[A little over an hour drive one way] She had told me that she was supossed to meet with the Dr. and his personell director for dinner after work to discuss WAW going to work for him full time.[she worked until 7pm at this job] I confronted her about pajamas and we ended up getting into big fight and she told me she did not want me staying in the house that night so I stayed at her mothers house that I was moving into that weekend. The next week she had D7 call and say she wanted to come stay with me.{don't know if this was WAW or D7's idea] I agreed so she came over to spend the night with me. WAW had forgot to send her pillow so I called her and told her we were coming to get D7's pillow. When we got there D7 went in and I followed her. WAW was in bed with cover pulled up to her neck. D7 noticed something and started pulling cover off her mom. WAW was wearing some more revealing pajamas than she usually wears around the house. They were not new but not what she usualy wears. So I look on the floor on the other side of the bed. This makes WAW really mad and she gets up and starts opening closet and bathroom doors asking if I need to look in there aslo. I end up appologizing and going back to M.I. house. I think it may have been that same week WAW told me she was going with her gilrfriend to a convention in Myrtle Beach S.C..A few weeks later I found where WAW had bought an airplane ticket when I checked our bank account.When I confronted her about this she said she was not going to Myrtle Beach, that the convention was in Florida. She said she did not want to tell me where she was going because she thought I may try to follow her.She had caught me the week before going through one of her bags. Anyway this lead to another fight and she said it was over between us. I talked to her later and and asked her to give the seperation some time to see if we could work things out. Db coach told me that if I didn't stop my behavior of of checking behind her and insinuating there was OM that I was just going to drive her away. DB coach also said alot of WAW's behavior could be atributed to just trying to make herself feel better.
You also wanted to know if I had already moved out.
Yes I have which I have already talked about above. I know that was a mistake now. At one point I told her that I wasn't going to move out, that if she wanted a seperation she would have to move out. WAW then told me that we could go ahead and get divorce lawyers and get a divorce so I agreed to move out.
Right now me and WAW have very little comunication and its usually about the kids and usually by text message. When I do she WAW face to face ,like at S17 football game Fri night, she seems very angry at me and hardly even ackknowledges me. I did have a seperate checking acount set up for myself about the middle of Oct. I also went and got seperate cell phone service.[my old cell phone was on her plan] When I told her I had gotten seperate checking account she got mad. She had told me that she wanted me to wait until Nov before I set up my own account. I also got some nasty text messages when I told her about checking account but I have finaly learned not to respond to these. D7 told WAW about new cell phone and WAW texted me wanting to know when I was going to tell her and when could she have my old cell phone cut off. I told her she could have it cut off the next day but it still has servive and that was 3 weeks ago. MY question now is do I stay detached from WAW or do I try to start being more friendly and try to have more comunication with her. Lately I have tried not to contact her unless she contacted me first. I know this is getting long and I have typed about all I can today[really slow typing]. I have to pick my D7 up from dance class tonight and told S17 to meet us after class and we would go somewhere and get dinner.
Thank you "givingitmyall" for responding and for the list it will be yery helpfull any other advice from anyone out there would be appreciated.
thanks, wmp549
Me 48 WAW 45 S17 D7 bomb July 3 moved out July 24 WAW brought me Divorce papers Sept 23
Well I have kind of been down in the dumps the last couple of weeks. Keep thinking about how much I don't want to get a D. A few weeks ago after WAW sent me nasty texts after I told her I wanted changed in D papers and after I set up my own checking account I pretty much thought M was over. I was to the point where I almost wanted it over. Now I realize how much I want it to work out. It just seems that we have so little contact now that WAW may be getting on with her life with out me.THe few times we do see face to face WAW just seems angry. I did see her for a few minutes yesterday when I went to pick up my D7. Our next door neighbor picks up D7 from school and keeps her until we get home and some nights she takes her to dance class. When I have to pick her up from neibor's house I try to get there before WAW gets home so I don't have to see her. But yesterday she got home while I was picking up D7 and D7 went running to our house so I had to go get her. WAW said D7 was inside getting some Barbie dolls to take back with her. I was waiting on the front porch. WAW did come out to sweep off the porch and I did talk to her about some school stuff.When D7 came out WAW went in and went down the hall and I yelled buy to her and we left. I just don't know how I can get her back with so little contact between us. Maybe thats the best thing right now. The other morning I was thinking of all the things I have done wrong since we have been seperated. Things that may have even pushed her further away from me. WAW made a comment in one of her e-mails after I had e-mailed her about the things I wanted to change in D papers, that she thought that I didn't care for her anymore that I just cared for stuff. She also said in one of our heated arguments over the phone that some of the things that I had done since the seperation had made her angry at me. When I asked her what, she said that I had accussed her of having an affair. I have never come out and openly accussed her of this but my actions have insinuated it. Sometimes I think I need to write her a letter and apologize for these things and tell her that I want to work on the R. Not to move back in right now but try to become friendly again and spend a little time together so that I can show her that I have changed and am willing to take more responcibility. I also think that if we could work things out we maybe could get by without filling bankrupcy. I realize that all the problems in the M wasn't my fault. WAW was very controlling and thought she should have what she wants and we have been in financial trouble many times with her handling our finances. Except for when I got the ILYBNILWY speech when she said it was all her and she had changed and it wasn't me, it seems she is blaming the failure of the M all on me. Maybe I should just let things be as they are right now. Give her space so she can think about the R. At some point I will have to tell her weather I am going to file for bunkrupcy or not. I did go on Dave Ramsey web site yesterday and registered online for financial coaches in my area. You leave your email address and ph# and it said they may contact you if not I will probably call to set up an apointment to get finacial advise if I can afford it.
I just don't know what direction I should head in right now. Any advise would be appreciated. thanks for listening to my problems
ME48 WAW45 S17 D7 ILYBNILWY July 3 Sep July 24 Given D papers Sept 23
Take a deep breath. Its hard for me to follow ur writing, I have difficulty focusing so if i missed something Im sorry.
The one thing that seems to jump out at me is the education thing testing ur child. Let me state I dont have any children. You have every right to be involved with the decision making for them. She is trying to cut you out. Its good that you are being persistent. DO NOT let her do this! My first thought was her trying to regain some kind of control over the situation. Thats the feel i got reading thru ur sitch.
She wants space, so give it to her. I know it seems to go against everything but really it isnt. You're giving her what she wants. Good for her. Keep GALing, take care of your kids, dont let her try to stonewall you on them and keep all conv limited. End them first and be BUSY! NO R TALKS!!!! and its ok to stall. Really, it is.
Oh, its also OK for her to be angry! Let her be angry. No more letters. Time for you to stop pursuing. Thats how she will perceive them. You dont need to show her youve changed. She notices. She may not act like it or show it, but she does. TIME TIME TIME.
