Thanks Tristan for the link and the advice. W and I both have a lot of hard decisions to make, and I know that both the worst and best are yet to come.
Me 45 WAW 36 S8 T 15 M 12 Multiple PA's since 6/07 W moved out 10/25/09 I filed D 12/29/09 Sitch
I also think one of the boundaries should be no more pot in the house. Would you want your S7 to know that you have illegal substances in the house? If it is around, he will find out some day.
Not an issue. No pot in the house. It left when she did, and she doesn't bring it over when she comes to see s7. We've already been very open and honest with him about pot. Someday this country will open their eyes and realize what a scam the criminalization of this plant has been. It's happening right now ( Breckenridge Votes to Legalize ) , but I understand that some people will never change their negative views on it, just as I will unlikely change my views on alcohol. Yes, the fact that it is currently illegal in my state has been a concern for my W and I for many years, but at this time, it's not an issue in my house.
I do have more patience than some, but it seems that everyone believes that first and foremost I need to tell her to cut off contact with OM. Although I could be being over-trusting or just completely naive, but I truly believe that what they have isn't the same as a EA. She's always had male friends and I've always been fine with that because I was secure in our relationship and knew that they were platonic. Even the guy W lost her virginity to has remained friends with her to this day. We go out with him every time we visit her hometown, and there's no problem on my part.
Again, maybe naively, I believe that this was more of a horrible self-destructive, self-degrading "ooops" on her part, although she made the conscious decision to cheat on me, and has owned up to it. To call what they've had going on since that time an EA is still a question on my mind. Her C asked her about the nature of the R with OM, if she loved him, did they flirt or do "sexting" and were still having PA and she told C "NO", it wasn't anything like that. She has been a cutter since about 8 years old, and apparently OM is/was one as well. OM's spent a lot of years in therapy and seems to know how to help her not be so self-destructive. She hasn't done anything like that since the day I found out she cheated on me, when she put out a cigarette into her wrist. I thought she had cut herself the day after she moved out, but had instead written in colored sharpies all of the horrible things she considers herself all over her forearm instead. She didn't show it to me, but I caught a small glance and asked her pull up her sleeve, so it's not something she's doing for the attention or anything, but she found a way to release whatever she needed to without physically abusing herself.
Can I honestly say I feel comfortable with her still having ANY type of R with him, after what happened...not really. Could I get past it without her cutting him off completely? Probably if she showed me the dedication to our R and I completely believed that she could keep the boundaries of friendship and that there never would be anything that could be considered an A, E or otherwise. OM is a musician, and has many groupies. He also works at a head shop and has his own fanbase there. He gets advances by lots of cuter/younger girls than my W, and apparently takes advantage of those opportunities regularly. W has told me that she knows that NO relationship that starts with cheating has a chance, and that she's not interested in that from him.
I know that I sound like I'm doing nothing but trying to justify her actions or make excuses for her. I'm really just trying to stream-of-thought and get out some more details that might help you guys understand why I haven't demanded that she cut off contact with OM yet. I think with or without him in the picture, it's going to be a rough reconciliation, but it's not the same as W falling in love with someone else, or moving out to be with OM, like I see so much of here on this forum.
Then again, I could just be the world's most gullible cuckold.
Me 45 WAW 36 S8 T 15 M 12 Multiple PA's since 6/07 W moved out 10/25/09 I filed D 12/29/09 Sitch
Although I could be being over-trusting or just completely naive, but I truly believe that what they have isn't the same as a EA.
I have been here long enough to know that this is going to bring the veterans out swinging, so be prepared.
Originally Posted By: CountingCrows
Can I honestly say I feel comfortable with her still having ANY type of R with him, after what happened...not really. Could I get past it without her cutting him off completely? Probably if she showed me the dedication to our R and I completely believed that she could keep the boundaries of friendship.
The boundary has already been stomped all over.
Originally Posted By: CountingCrows
I could just be the world's most gullible cuckold.
I hate to say it but I agree with this statement 100%.
If you have been lurking here then you know all cheaters lie period.
Not to be mean - Your W cheated on you and whether you admit it or not, you are making excuses for it...
You are ok with her being friends with the guy she banged behind your back...
It has nothing to do with her leaving or falling in love...
This is about you and what you want out of the relationship/how you recover/how you move on...
I am completely at a loss for words reading your latest post and that isn't something that is normal for me, so I am going to leave this alone and refer you to some of the ones who have been here much longer then me.
May All Who Seek To Take My Life Be Put To Shame And Confusion; May All Who Desire My Ruin Be Turned Back In Disgrace. ~Psalm 40:14~
Your post was reminding me of when I first joined this forum and I offered to do things in order to keep my marriage intact that went against all of my beliefs...
I was willing to be a doormat, I tried to be the nice one, I tried to be the bitch, I offered an open marriage hell the last time mine went to visit the OW in another state, I packed snacks for him so he wouldn't have to stop on his travel.
I am not proud of any of this...I gave up my self-respect and I am just now taking it back...
I can see your self-respect flying out the window in your last post.
You love your wife and would basically do anything to keep her, I understand that however I don't want you to lose yourself like I did in the process.
Being her doormat isn't going to make her want to stay with you, having no self-respect isn't going to make her want to stay with you.
Be the man who can look in the mirror each day and be proud of the choices you make...
Not for her - For you.
May All Who Seek To Take My Life Be Put To Shame And Confusion; May All Who Desire My Ruin Be Turned Back In Disgrace. ~Psalm 40:14~
Great post Serenity. It sounded like a veteran to me.
I always respected her privacy, but when 3 txts in a row come in at 4am, I was just curious who was sending them. The BIG BOMB hit when I read them and realized that she had slept with OM, the musician. According to her, it was only once, and she regretted her very bad decision immediately/immensely.
CC. She only owned up to it after she was caught. Then went out and got a secret cell phone. You give her full trust and she still feels a need to be secretive. How is that working for you?
And if she lies to you, she can lie to her counselor.
Thank you all for opening my eyes wider and slapping me in the face with the painful truth. I have definitely lost myself in the process, and my self-respect is at 0 at this point. It is time I get it back. I'm making arrangements to discuss (with s7 out of the house) her cutting off contact with OM one last time. In the meantime, I'm also proceeding with cutting her off completely from any financial support. I really didn't want it to go down this way. I know it's going to get REALLY UGLY, but after doing some more thinking last night, I went ahead and looked over her "secret phone" records one more time, and she is texting/talking to him from the first thing in the morning to the last thing at night. Friends or not, if the person she thinks of first thing when she wakes up and right before bed isn't me, then she is having at the very least an EA. I'm putting my foot down. Knowing her, she will EXPLODE, try to flip it on me, and disappear from my life as much as she can with us still having a s. I'm going to re-arrange my morning schedule so I can see s7 off on the bus, then work through lunch. I've already got the afternoon's covered for him.
Looking at the phone records, I'm not even sure if she really even worked her first day at the new job, since she was texting/calling her roommate, who works at the same location. Obviously has no problems lying to me...why would it be any different with her C.
Truth hurts, BAD...but I respect myself more than this.
Me 45 WAW 36 S8 T 15 M 12 Multiple PA's since 6/07 W moved out 10/25/09 I filed D 12/29/09 Sitch
Just make sure to make it about YOU (a boundary), instead of about HER (controlling).
"I cannot feel safe in a marriage where my wife is in constant contact with a man who is not her husband."
If (when!) she flips out, just say "I'm sorry you feel that way. This is a boundary of personal integrity for me, and I thought you had a right to know. What you do about it is entirely up to you, but I will no longer tolerate your deceit and your disrespect."
btw, one of the great things about the cheating mind is that it is usually paranoid, and they DON'T know what you know (or what you don't know). If you want to have a little fun with this (and there's nothing wrong with that; it helps you keep your sanity), just look at her and say "Oh, I know all about you and _______ , and it needs to stop. It's incredibly disrespectful to me, to our marriage, and to our family."
When she asks you what you know, say "EVERYTHING."
When she asks you HOW you know, REFUSE TO GIVE UP YOUR INTEL. ("I'm not going to tell you that, so please stop asking.")
You might also want to start by asking her "Is there anything you'd like to tell me?" -- give her a chance to "come clean."
Finally, do NONE of this in ANGER. Speak calmly, matter-of-fact. Do not raise your voice. If she raises hers, ask her to "please calm down." Refuse to continue the conversation if she screams at you, hits you, or in any way is rude or disrespectful and she won't stop it.
