Is this the end of my marriage?

[jumpyninja]

P17

I am in a situation similar to yours. My WS is currently living down the street from me and I do pass that house in order to go home. I am forced to get communications from her because we share property and pets, even though the communication annoys me. I miss my wife like all hell but the advice you are being given here is good advice.
Here is what you are going through. Right now you are going through the bargaining stage of grief. You would do whatever you could to have your wife and family back together. You feel you have lost your wife, and want her back, therefore you are in a generous and giving mood because your priority is her. This has to end. Believe me, no contact works. It really, really does. It makes you feel stronger and better about yourself. It also has a better chance of drawing the other person back towards you (but that is not the goal). The goal is to give you your strength back by not having her around to remind you of the loss. Remember the phrase "Out of sight, out of mind." So true.
You are fortunate that all those strong feelings you have can be transferred to someone else, your child. So take all those warm feelings, and the feeling of being generous or loved, and do things for/with your child. This will help mitigate the damage HER actions (not yours) have caused your child.
Now, you mentioned that you feared that having no contact wouuld make her less interested or concerned about you. It doesn't and here's why. You noticed it when she removed herself from your life. If you do not contact her, then the same will happen to her. And yes, she does care, cause if she didn't, you would be divorced now. When people engage in these behaviors, they are seeking an instant gratification. This is an act based on desperation rather than logic. This will continue as long as they are in pain. If the guy she is seeing has all of these negative qualities, it will not last (they rarely do). But she is unable to stop now because she's desperate to stop the pain. By removing yourself from her life, you are leaving a void that cannot be filled by him, no matter what you might fear. So there's a better chance that she will be drawn back to you to fill the void again.
So to sum up, the first step is to stay positive. She has betrayed you and yet you still love and cherish her enough to forgive. There's a saying that "forgiveness is the ultimate sign of strength." By surviving, even tenuously, you are stronger than she is at this point, since she acting out of a sense of desperation. People are drawn to strength!
Second, maintain as little contact with her as possible. Do NOT let her hang out at the house with your child. She can bond with her at her own house. Plus that'll give her a taste of what it would be like to stay with this guy permanently. I'm sure that is not appealling to either of them. Do not tell her much about your life and keep conversations with her short. None of that is her business.
Third, take care of yourself at all times. Be extremely selfish and indulge yourself. Any non-selfish impulses should be directed to your child.
Fourth, if you feel yourself slipping on the no contact, remember how bad she made you feel and feed a little bit off that anger. That is a primitive but sometimes effective method of keeping yourself focused.
Last, make a plan and stick to it. Decide how long you are willing to wait on her and make plans if it goes either way.

I promise you that everything will be OK. If you are not in jail for homicide or in the hospital on suicide watch, then you have a great deal of strength in you. She WILL notice it, and others will as well. If you continue to move on with life, you will recover. And sometimes, if you move forward with life, some of the things you left behind will catch up. Good luck.

[P17]

The evening with the W is over.

I let my D and her spend time downstairs. I worked upstairs, played some music, had a sing and enjoyed myself. Bought and built a new bookcase and moved my DVD's and books into it. Tidied the bedroom, cleaned the car, etc.

W wasn't in a great mood when she arrived. Don't know why. Asked the usual how was work, how's life etc. questions. Got the usual stock answers of 'fine' etc. So I left them to it.

When my W came in I heard my D talking to her from upstairs. My W asked if we were doing anything later, and my D said we were off to a bonfire and fireworks show in the next town, W asked who with, D said with one of daddy's friends and her daughter. That was the end of that.

Until later when my W asked if, according to my D, out of the blue, if we were going to the bonfire with 'friend A' (who she knows is just a female friend of mine) and my D said no. So my W thinks I am off to a bonfire with a female friend and her daughter who she doesn't know. Maybe it will make her think a little for a change, maybe not. Don't care. The good thing was she wasn't told anything. No details. We were actually going with friend A, but my D didn't know that.

Later my W asked me what software she needed for her laptop to burn songs onto CD (I own an IT business). I thought for a little and said that her friend X could tell her. She persisted so I told her that her laptop wasn't my responsibility. She said she never said it was and I got up and said 'you'll need to do it yourself' to which I got a huffy 'okay fine'. She was in a huff the rest of the visit. I continued to be upbeat and made sure she had a drink, gave her some more photos of my D that I had duplicates of etc. I didn't respond to her negative reactions and her short answers.

She also asked me for a copy of the letter my D gave me where she said she really missed my W. I am wary about this as I think she may use it to ask / demand / fight for contact with my D through Social Services. The way she asked just put me on edge, alarm bells rang and my gut and instinct said there was a motive.

Finally, she is back here on Wednesday and I asked her to babysit for me again so I could go to my dance class which she agreed to.

My first day, as far as I'm concerned, with limited contact went very well. I decided, however childish it may have been. to not help my wife with anything to do with her laptop (and I knew she would ask me at some point about it, her wireless, broadband etc.). These are things somebody would do for their friend or W - she is neither. I don't do those things any more for her. When she went in a huff I felt bad and I wanted to then help her but I kept with it.

I also continued to be upbeat, busy and generally very pleasant around her. As I said, I made sure she was comfortable, had drinks or something to eat etc. (although she didn't want anything).

I feel not too bad just now. It's the only day I can remember where afterwards I've felt strength and not felt like falling apart. It's making it easier to go the full NC / LRT route. I'm a long way off it but fingers crossed.

[P17]

I read your post your started yesterday. It does sound very similar. You seem a lot more resolved than me though!

Believe me, no contact works. It really, really does. It makes you feel stronger and better about yourself.

It does definitely make me stronger. I've seen that when there have been longer period of NC.

It also has a better chance of drawing the other person back towards you

In my W's case I think she would actually prefer the NC herself. Then again, as a friend put it if she REALLY wanted to move on with her new life, she easily could by stopping contact with me and my D.

Now, you mentioned that you feared that having no contact wouuld make her less interested or concerned about you. It doesn't and here's why. You noticed it when she removed herself from your life. If you do not contact her, then the same will happen to her.

That was before the OM appeared though. As soon as he appeared the contact dropped off almost overnight.

And yes, she does care, cause if she didn't, you would be divorced now.

She can't divorce me for at least two years (that's the law here in Scotland) as I have done nothing wrong. In Scotland, you can only get an immediate divorce on two grounds - adultery and 'unreasonable behaviour' (ie. violence etc.). I can divorce her at any time on the ground of adultery however. I have sent her a separation agreement (which is a sort of divorce without going to the full court) which splits up financial matters now for when the divorce comes around. She got that on 3/11. We will see how long it takes her to sign / challenge it.

If the guy she is seeing has all of these negative qualities, it will not last (they rarely do).

If you mean the qualities I've mentioned then most of them I know for sure about. A few others I'm speculating. If it does last I would be mightily surprised, HOWEVER I think my W is so desperate and insecure at the moment (again from speaking to others and putting 2 and 2 together) that I think she would follow him to the end of the world (I think as PDT / robx said in one of his posts about a female astronaut travelling half way across the country to see her OM wearing a daiper so she wouldn't have to stop for toilet breaks - that is my wife just now).

But she is unable to stop now because she's desperate to stop the pain. By removing yourself from her life, you are leaving a void that cannot be filled by him, no matter what you might fear. So there's a better chance that she will be drawn back to you to fill the void again.

This sort of makes sense to me.We have been together for 7 years so no matter what happens, that is a lot to get over in only 3 months.

Second, maintain as little contact with her as possible. Do NOT let her hang out at the house with your child. She can bond with her at her own house.

I can't allow that. She'd then have the OM and my child together. I could let her take my D out on the condition the OM is not involved I suppose. I have today implemented limited contact where I let her spend time at my house with my D on their own (I just made myself scarce). At the moment this is a good compromise and will also, I really hope, give me the strength to progress to full NC.

Plus that'll give her a taste of what it would be like to stay with this guy permanently. I'm sure that is not appealling to either of them.

After 4 weeks of being here this guys still doesn't have a job from what I can understand. One of the (many) reasons I've heard she left was because I was 'taking 2/3 of her salary for the household money'. At least I was bringing in money, this guy aint. Double standards - weird sitch.

A friend has also said that the contact she has with my D is several hours at a time and that if I was in his shoes I'd be a little annoyed that she was still spending time with her step-D and her H after leaving them to start a new life with him. However, it was pointed out that maybe he likes her out of the house as he seems to spend most of his time online (or at least did).

Do not tell her much about your life and keep conversations with her short. None of that is her business.

As of today I am trying to be deliberately vague about everything.

Third, take care of yourself at all times. Be extremely selfish and indulge yourself. Any non-selfish impulses should be directed to your child.

That is food for thought - be extremely selfish!

Fourth, if you feel yourself slipping on the no contact, remember how bad she made you feel and feed a little bit off that anger. That is a primitive but sometimes effective method of keeping yourself focused.

This is a difficult one for me, but will give that a go.

Last, make a plan and stick to it. Decide how long you are willing to wait on her and make plans if it goes either way.

Unless something happens to change my mind, I will wait until the D - 2 August 2011 is the earliest date that can happen unless I file.

I promise you that everything will be OK. If you are not in jail for homicide or in the hospital on suicide watch, then you have a great deal of strength in you. She WILL notice it, and others will as well. If you continue to move on with life, you will recover. And sometimes, if you move forward with life, some of the things you left behind will catch up. Good luck.

Believe it or not, I have my plans focused on an upcoming dance next Friday the 13th. This is a big deal for me and a point for me to move forward from - I never danced with my W but I plan to dance my a$$ off and have a great night and also, the main reason, is to start moving on.

My W was going to go and said she wouldn't, however I have a nagging feeling she still will. I don't care. Either way, I'm having a great time with the 4 women and 2 blokes I'm going with!

Thanks for your post. I did help!

[jumpyninja]

Seems like you are doing OK. Just remember to take care of yourself (and your child) first. All of your actions should be focused on the care of your daughter and your mental and physical well-being. I lost 12 pounds in the drama prior to me discovery the A, that was about 10% of my total body weight. As one of my friends said, "die FOR your wife, not BECAUSE of your wife."
Do not deny your feelings. You wouldn't be on this website if you were hoping to get a divorce. You wouldn't be analyzing her behavior if you wanted out. You wouldn't be quite as amped up for the next dance if you wanted out. The reason I tell you that is so that you remember to go through the entire grieving process. If you don't, you'll get stuck and most be able to accept the situation and make the best decision on how to handle it. People's decision-making processes are not as logical when they are desperate or scared. That's how she's in that situation, and how she can't get out of it right now even though I suspect that she wants to.
Keep going, you will be fine!!

[P17]

All of your actions should be focused on the care of your daughter and your mental and physical well-being. I lost 12 pounds in the drama prior to me discovery the A, that was about 10% of my total body weight. As one of my friends said, "die FOR your wife, not BECAUSE of your wife."

To date I've lost 35 pounds in weight since my W told me we were separating (August 2). Suprisingly, I feel great!

Do not deny your feelings. You wouldn't be on this website if you were hoping to get a divorce.

I don't want out. I still love my wife deeply however strange that may appear to other people!

The reason I tell you that is so that you remember to go through the entire grieving process.

I don't think I've grieved completely as yet. Although I have certainly started.

People's decision-making processes are not as logical when they are desperate or scared. That's how she's in that situation, and how she can't get out of it right now even though I suspect that she wants to.

I don't think my W wants to get out of her situation. As you said she's desperate and scared just now. I think she thinks she loves this guy, as all WAS's do, but my wife, in her emotional and insecure state, has latched onto this guy. I think my only hope is for him to wake up and leave not for her to wake up and kick him out. Even if that does happen, my W hasn't fought for anything during our M so I doubt she will therefore fight for me now.

They could be truly in love and be each others soul mate for all I know.

[P17]

I have come up with a 'speech' to say to my W about ending contact. I have to say I have my doubts it will attract her back to me, but I also understand that it's not actually about her.

At least here I agree as during the period where there has been little contact I start to feel better about myself. I miss my wife and still love her deeply but I do have a better attitude about life. I therefore know that NC is really the only way to go for me at this stage. However, as I have also said in the past posts, I feel that this is the last I will ever hear from my W. That is sad but that is also her choice. She knows where I am and can. at any time, decide that her M is worth saving. She always feared being a divorce statistic (something I only found out about recently) and she has this power in her hands.

Anyway, here is my speech:

"
I will no longer accept your A and continue to keep quiet about the damage it has done to our marriage and our family.

It is unfair to continue to give D false hope of us being a loving family again and she has recently expressed anger and resentment to me about you and OM breaking apart our family. D has been greatly affected by this and she hasn't begun yet to talk about how she really feels. However I am worried that while you have contact with her and the A continues she will continue to feel further confused and angry about you and OM. D does love you, that is clear, but she is only 8 and I don't believe she can easily express or understand her feelings of love on one hand and anger and resentment on the other. To allow her to continue to feel like this will be to her detriment. You chose to give up the responsibility to be D's step-mum and I now realise how unfair it is on D for you to continue in that role.

I have been thinking about all of this and I have decided that there should only be contact between us for two reasons. To either discuss the reconcilliation of our marriage or the potential end of our marriage. The first one I can't discuss while you have invited a third person into our marriage and the second one is best left to solicitors I think. In the meantime I will move on with my life without you.
"

I used part of what PDT said to me previously.

I feel it is a bit too long in the middle. I want it to be as concise as possible as I, as people who have read any of this thread will know, have a habit of rambling on. Short and to the point.

My D wrote a letter to my W tonight that I have sitting ion front of me which is basically saying she is sad since she left and wants her to come back as she really really misses her. I was wanting to show my W this letter to expose what she has done to my D. I feel this will push her further away though than bring her closer however she MUST realise the consequences of her actions. For all intents and purposes her step-D has always been treated like her D.

Again, comments or suggestions really gratefully appreciated.

[sandi2]

I personally do not feel that you can stick to it. If you send this letter or give her the speech......and then you backslide, that would be worse than never saying anything. You have been wishy-washy too much and I just don't see you being strong enough to carry it off. Then there is your little girl to think about. She has written a letter to her step-mom and crying for her b/c she misses her so much. Do you think you could deny your D that? I'm just saying that you need to give this a few days to think more about it before you give her the speech.

[P17]

Thanks Sandi2.

I agree I have been wishy washy. However I have waited for a few days before posting this to make sure I am determined to do it.

I am terrified to do it because I think it will be the last time I ever see my wife. However I know, deep down, that I must do this for me and my D. The positive aspect of all of this is that the 10 days or so I had no contact from W I actually really began to live again. I want that feeling back and while W is still in the picture I don't feel it. I don't blame her, I blame me for allowing her to make me feel this way.

Could I deny my D that much? Yes, I think I could as ultimately it is hurting her. The more distance she gets the more she will forget and move on.

My deadline for the speech is the end of the month. It's not tomorrow. I actually wanted to post this now so I got good feedback and was able to tweak it before that time.

[sandi2]

My deadline for the speech is the end of the month. It's not tomorrow. I actually wanted to post this now so I got good feedback and was able to tweak it before that time.

Okay,good idea.

[P17]

Sandi2,

Something I asked in an earlier post was, as a WAW yourself, am I doing the right thing with NC with regards only to bringing a WAW closer rather than me moving on? (I know NC is about me but I want to know if it really does bring a WAW possibly back)?