Last night I got what I needed. I actually made it happen. I talked to him, a monologue, I was absolutely honest about my feelings, I revisited the past from my point of view. How what he then did affected me THEN, how it all got a new meaning after I found out the truth, how the hurt was enormous and it hit me two times, what I was thinking then, what now etc etc. I was sobbing and crying the whole time.
I was waiting to see what he would do after putting the kids to bed and he made no move to leave. I went to my bedroom and then I felt all these "why's" etc etc building up and for a moment I tried to push it down but then I realised, that's what I wanted to do, ever since I found out, I wanted a face to face monologue, I wanted to talk "emotions" (typical woman), I wanted him to "see" me, so I walked over to him, sat beside him and started talking. And the more I talked the more the tears were coming and I didnt hold back, I just kept talking about dates, incidents and how I was feeling, about all the cruelness, the cake eating, the years he had accepting love and sex and initmacy with another, while I was struggling not to break down, not to let my kids down, grow thru the damn situation, how I consciously loved him and waited for him, how I lately realised it was all a lie, how it felt like he came back because she didnt workout for him etc etc. ANYTHING I ever felt (almost) and thought came out.
I told him how it all seemed so unfair to me, to be left at home, working 10 hours away from home, dealing with our kids, his dad's depression, looking worn out and tired, bitchy and demanding and I was compared to a 35 yr old single woman who spent all her time beautifying, being "ready" at his call to offer to him good times, how unfair it was that he never managed to see thru the lust and the whole new excitement, how his actions made me feel our past and our love were worthless.
I let the wall down. I wasnt tough and cool, I was honest and he tried to shhhh me, and I refused and kept talking and crying, loud and dramatic I guess.
He put his arms around me and held me and listened till I stopped. And then I started asking him things. And he kpet saying it was a mistake, it was a damn mistake. And I told him a mistake is something you do once, or twice, was happened was a choice he kept making, her over our family and me.
He said he was wrong, wrong to believe he didnt love me, wrong to believe she was special. He told me she is a "nice" girl, when I asked, but she is not the one for me. He gave me answers about the pregnancy, who knew, many details that I wanted.
And then I told him she may be "nice" but she costed you your family, me and your A broke my heart. And left to my room. He came in and hugged me and then I cried so hard, the whole apartment was echoing my sobbing and I can believe the kids didnt wake up. I cried and cried and he kept kissing me and squeezing me in his arms and telling me to calm down.
I fell asleep right there in his arms and he didnt move, probably for hours. When I woke up hours lated, his Tshirt was wet and he was still holding me, had fallen asleep with his clothes on on top of the covers (I was underneeth).
This morning I woke up first, and went with my D and bought him flowers and sweets and made breakfast. She was very excited and wanted to write him a card and all. I never got him a present.
He kept coming close to me and hugging me and kissing me. We ate breakfast and he said it was great, watched a movie with the kids and then he asked me if I would go help him buy treats for work. We did go and when he left he called to tell me he wanted to keep the little flower pot we bought him and I should not throw it away even if the flowers die.
I feel so much better today. Tired and exhausted but so much better. I think I shook him, I didnt plan it, but it happened. It felt like the wall between us came down, or at least a big part of it. I dont know what is going to happen afterwards, I dont care. K
At some point I told him if he were to disappear today, I would live my life fine without him. That he taught me how to do that. He said "then, you dont love me, I taught you how to stop loving me". I didnt reply.
He also mentioned W for the first time. He said last year I wasnt 100% honest either. I reminded him he agreed to D right before I left for the trip and later when he said he wnated back I had told him there was someone else and he said he is sure I didnt meet this person last autumn, he couldnt believe I "met" him in NY, I didnt try to defend myself, I feel I have nothing to defend myself about. But the fact that he mentioned it, felt like he was letting his wall down too.
Wow too.. you have bought tears to my eyes, seriously.. hugs to you and WELL DONE!!
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I let the wall down. I wasnt tough and cool, I was honest and he tried to shhhh me, and I refused and kept talking and crying, loud and dramatic I guess.
He put his arms around me and held me and listened till I stopped. And then I started asking him things. And he kpet saying it was a mistake, it was a damn mistake. And I told him a mistake is something you do once, or twice, was happened was a choice he kept making, her over our family and me. He said he was wrong, wrong to believe he didnt love me, wrong to believe she was special. He told me she is a "nice" girl, when I asked, but she is not the one for me. He gave me answers about the pregnancy, who knew, many details that I wanted.
God thats amazing, well done for letting it all out, why shouldnt you? I'm SO glad he was there for you when you really needed him to be, that his focus was on you, that he answered your questions and was tender and loving and held you all night, how lovely. I also believe him.. it was a damn mistake and she's not you. I heard those words myself this weekend.
I suppose you know how lucky, fortunate, whatever you are to have got this.. to have him listen, hold you, let all the hurt out to the one that caused it, to get some answers and then to spend his birthday with him. I get that you dont know what will happen next, but I'm so glad you got this much at least. Love you too xxx
Me:40! H:37 Together: 12yrs IDLY & left 11/07 ADs 03/08 OW 8/08 Reconciled 05/09 now married! my thread
Reading about your night with H & it has a different tone to it that I can't really pin-point.
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The discussion ended with him saying "You are asking me to be someone else. This is me and I cant be any different". He said he cant be affectionate, tender, sweet talk to me, "it's not his style". He absolutely offered no compromise,"he is the way he is". All that said in a nice way, he did say he loves me (not I love you but of "course there is love").
stbxH is stuborn and refuses change. And I cant live with what he offers
Since you mention "holding on to yourself", it reminds me of something else Schnarch says in PM. "...we always pick a marital partner who's at the same level of differentiation as we are."
Your letting the walls down, telling him how you felt/feel without being "tough & cool", instead of having him answer questions, looks like the way to proceed with him & allows him to drop some walls also.
I think the NY trip had a big effect on him. Can't underestimate the fear of loss factor, LBS move'n on factor.
Now it's all out there. It's going to take some time for him to chew on all that, I think. I would not be surprised if he pulls back a little, while he digests it all, so don't be upset if that happens. But, after that, I think you are going to find out if he is in or out. I think you made it clear that you are in.
At some point I told him if he were to disappear today, I would live my life fine without him. That he taught me how to do that. He said "then, you dont love me, I taught you how to stop loving me". I didnt reply.
Dear boy doesn't understand what you have learned, that "love" and "need" are two different things. He is like so many, driven by feelings, needs, impulses.
My T just recommended, "The Road Less Traveled" by M. Scott Peck. She said both I and my H should read it. And that was in light of our conversation about this very topic of H's living and making decisions based on feelings, needs, and impulses.
The beauty of what you expressed is that you are finally exhibiting your truth without being driven by fear of losing him. That seems like a strong place to be. I check in here always hoping for the best for you. You deserve it.
Interesting sunny, I feel I was the one desperate for fusion (in PM's words), I think he is able for a much diferentiated stance than I was in his relationships. I have to give this some thought. And maybe NY plays a role, as it should.
Just saying the word TO him, not writing emails, not talking on the phone, "released" me. Nothing new came out, but the fact that I kept telling him about me, and what I was thinking when they were in hotels, trips, sneaking to see each other, how I felt in August finding all these pictures, the emails talking about MY life, how it felt to suddenly realise that I was fighting with my eyes blindfolded, how it felt knowing now that all this time he was cake eating, I was using details of the past, words he had said and was now putting them in the right context, the counceling he came to once, 3 months before he moved out, where for 2,5 hours he agreed with my C that this R was viable and made a last remark at the end, "I dont know if I want this R" tearing down everything we had agreed all the time we were there, details about our kids, the lies to our friends that tried to help out, the constant effort to "monsterise" me while all along the truth was, he was so in love with her, he couldnt see 20 cm away, deep in the fog of the beginning of their A.
I asked him what he feels about her morals. He said, "I cant say anything about her morals since I was doing this with her". He insisted she showed up at the place with my son, un-announced and pretended she was there at the playground, I asked him if that wasnt weird, I told him "our kids, are mine and yours, and whoever enters their lives, is our decision, nobody forces herslef on them". He said "I know, you are right".
I asked him if he realised she could have kept the baby and how would our kids react to that scenario. He looked down and said "I never thought of that possibility".
He did admit that for a while, he thought he had found "HER" but that very quickly after he moved out, he felt she wasnt her.
He said she knew I was asking for a divorce (which I doubt) and was concerned why he didn't do it. I asked why didnt he and he said "doesnt the situation now tell why I didnt? I never wanted to divorce you, not for one minute, something was holding me back".
I told him I am not his mom. The love a couple shares is not unconditional. It's not enought to take for granted love exists, you have to show it to your partner. I have said before he had a close R with his mom. A weird one. THey wouldnt talk much, he didnt spend time with her much, but he KNEW she loved him no matter what he did and that she knew he loved her. I stressed this alot because I know I am a lot like his mom only I am not her. And even if for a while I had accepted this "love exists and it is enough" I have no longer the reason, stupidity, or ignorance to believe so as he wants me to. Love is not there unless I feel it. I told him, he is no longer honest, good, "safe" for me. He said he is the same person he always was and if I thought he was good before, I should know he is good now. I replied that this isnt how it works from now on and plus I have changed a lot to.
Today is his nameday. Three years ago, flowers came to the house with a group corporate card signed by 3 people, two men and her. Mind you, this was before he acted mean or cruel to me. For some reason I insisted it was funny a sponsor company had sent flowers to our home, they usually send them to his office. I asked about her and he said "ohh she is just one of the account managers I work with for the team". My instict was dead on. That is why 6 months later when I found the first inocent email from her I immediately felt threatened. I had remembred the name.
I know she will contact him today. May send him flowers, gifts, show up at his work whatever. I will ask him about it. He better NOT lie. He said he just doenst want to embarg in a convo with her. He feels if he tells her what I asked him to, he will have to asnwer questions. I understand that. But I will demand an email. Didnt want to do that last night because I didnt feel like threatening, etc... But when I do tell him again, I will tell him it is a dealbreaker and until he does, I am "out".
I feel like so much hurt left me last night. Katharsis is a great word for it. K
