Yes, I can see the wisdom in Lotus' post. I know I am not doing well with boundaries either. I feel stronger today--a little--but I am still in so much pain I feel like my body is folding in on itself. I need to get a grip and be strong. I keep imagining the humiliation of his gf hugging his unsuspecting mother and family while my kids and I just sit there. I wish I was a better person and didnt care. I wish he still didnt make my heart skip a beat every time i get near him. I am working on stopping these thoughts but I need a few more 2 x4s to the head. Time will pass and the intensity of this will diminish as I accomodate to all the changes and get used to being alone. Within myself is a peace and place of calmness I need to find again. My daughter is flying in Fri am for funeral and wants her Dad to pick her up so she can talk to him. She is generally calm even when she is angry and maybe he will hear what she has to say with an open heart and mind and he will respond like Lotus' H.
Never under estimate the effect that one's children's opinions can have on your S. Also, I think you did so well in telling your H that your felt bad that the M had deteriorated to the point that he felt he needed to turn elsewhere. That was very much what happened in my sitch. It was when I told my H how sad I was that our M had gotten to such a bad place and that I wanted to improve it, that he actually told me about OW and their plans. OW had left her H and small children at that time and was waiting for my H to try and 'oust' me from the family home so she could move in.( Words can never express how I feel about OW.....even after all this time). However, me showing my H I recognised my part in the M breakdown, ( and although I never said this at the time, I DO NOT BELIEVE there is any excuse for an A), sort of diffused things. My H then started to remember the good things in our M and suddenly OW did not look like such a good alternative.
I know this is a terribly sexist thing to say, but I think it takes a lot to make a man actually go to the effort of splitting up and moving on. An A may be one thing, but all that upheaval that goes with D is another. I think that they will take the easiest route and so you need to make staying with you look to be the easist route. Make contact pleasant and enjoyable between you. Don't worry if your children want to express their opinions: they have a right to do so. I always made sure my children saw though that there were two sides to everything, and that I had done things to make their dad feel so unhappy that he had then felt he needed to look elsewhere for comfort. I never acknowledged that looking to another person was ok though.
My second D, who was about 13/14yrs old at the time, knew who OW was, and she phoned OW and told her exactly what she thought of her. That REALLY shook OW up.
Like in Lotus' case, when reality hits and the OP sees what they are going to have to deal with in it's entirety they often get cold feet. They are not just taking on your S, but also taking on what is often a whole hostile extended family. Air the situation, let it see the light of day, and see how quickly the excitement fades for your H and OW and reality kicks in. At the same time though, keep the way for your H to come home to you open and pleasant. Acknowledge both sides problems in your M breakdown and look for solutions;together if possible.
I believe that DBing can help a lot in aiding one in coping with the pain and in identifying areas of self improvement and in finding one's 'self' again, but you do still need to communicate with your H if you want things to progress. Going dark and no R talk are for periods when you aren't getting on and just argue; they are to help you avoid making things worse. However, they will only ever get you to a certain point. That's where people often fall down in piecing - they are too scared by then to actually try to talk to their S and they walk on egg shells. If your communication channels are good then use them - but do it wisely; own your own sh!t, don't accuse, think how you are going to phrase things so as to make them non threatening. Be as welcome as possible. Make yourself the better alternative. Be sincere in wanting to make the changes to improve your M.
When my H and I got down to the 'nitty gritty' we realised we did just want to be with each other, we had just forgotten that in the milieu of child rearing etc.
We went to the abyss, and my H, just like yours, really thought he loved the OW......but he didn't. He loved feeling wanted again because I had stopped making him feel that. Now he can't even believe he was such a walking midlife cliche and as for OW? Well he can't believe he would have ever stooped so low.
Keep at it - you have lots of positives in your sitch - and let your children help if they want, but ensure they see balance too or your H will think you are using them as a weapon. He will always be their father.
Don't under estimate the power of how OW's H could help you also, and OW's children's opinions.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
your post gives me some hope at a low point. Today I feel better about life and know I can go on. My H left me a nice voice mail thanking me as I found a hard to get wine he loves and left it in his car at his office. Tomorrow we go as a family to his father's funeral. I am so happy for your that your husband came to his senses. My H is very out of touch with his feelings. Mostly for myself, I want to be calm, non bitter, person but I do hope he can see the newer me. SO many mistakes. Your point about the R talk is well taken--I am afraid of making a mistake, saying the wrong thing--I basically dont know what to talk to him about anymore and I think I have been too didatic about the DB "rules". Its hard to communicate about much when you dont share your life anymore. After 2 years of deceit, I feel like I dont know the man well at all. I spent 9 months changing myself before he left and if that didnt move his heart--will anything now he is moved out? But, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain by trying. I know he is shocked by my lack of anger and pleasantness--. I cant yet wrap my mind around the OW'S H and grown children finding out or being told and some gut part of me thinks it might precipitate an opposite reaction where they are together all the time once they dont need to sneak around. I dont know if this is just a welling up of my own anxiety that makes me say this or a true intuition. I cant tell you how much your post has helped me to find peace whatever my outcome.
I am glad that my post helped you find some peace. That is what we are here for - to help support one another.
Quote:
After 2 years of deceit, I feel like I dont know the man well at all. I spent 9 months changing myself before he left and if that didnt move his heart--will anything now he is moved out?
Presumably you are talking about his deceit with the OW here. I am sure he has noticed the changes. I was in such a similar situation. Once I told my H how I felt though and I owned my part in the M breakdown, it was like a turning point was reached. I did ramp things up with OW and her H and was very vocal and public about it all. I let my H know how much he meant to me and that I wanted our M. Making it all so public I think shamed my H and OW - especially re the children. It also made what had been fantasy up until that point a reality - and when my H realised all that he would have to go through to be with OW AND that I still really loved him and wanted to work at the M, it did stop him in his tracks. Also, the opinion of other family members made him reconsider.....he saw the ripples that it was making in so many people's lives. The reality wasn't so great.
I really recommend putting this out there and letting it not be a secret.
Your posts make me think your H wants to be wanted, ( don't we all). let him know that you want him.
One of the things my H has commented about was how he loved how hard I fought for him; he felt it proved my love for him.
Your lack of anger and pleasantness, combined with your thoughtfulness, (with the wine), can only be good. The fact that he spent so much time with you and tried to ML also indicates to me that your H is undecided and not sure OW is the right choice. I would think OW is probabaly being quite demanding now that you know about her. She is probabaly not behaving in an attractive way by putting pressure on your H and that works to your advantage.
Carry on doing what works for you but don't believe that leaving the A in secrecy will help. Honestly, I have never seem a sitch on this board where that has helped; A's tend to thrive in secrecy - they are able to maintain the fantasy of the sitch. Reality is so different.
My H and I went from where you are to renewing our vows. It can be done.
(((((HUGS)))))))
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
I spent Friday, Saturday and Sunday with my H at his father's funeral. My daughter flew in from out of town and both she and my son were wonderful at supporting their grandmothr and father. My daughter did confront my H about the affair-she didnt feel it went great. They both cried a lot. He said it happened because he didnt feel loved. (I have a valdidated these feelings and apologized for my part). He said he has no plan at this point--ie plan to divorce but needs time to think. He also told her the o
OOPS-submitted too quick. He also told daughter the OW was not bad like they (kids) were making her out to be. My daugher said her father should realize they would never like her no matter what as she helped break up our family. At the funeral, my H had me at his side and alowed me to comfort him. He stayed in our home all three nights as he wanted t see our daughter as much as possible. THis morning he found me crying a little in the hall and hugged me and siad "dont cry just give me a some time" He also told daughter he was dialing it down some with the OW (small comfort that is). People on the board say exposing the affair to the light of day will make some changes happen. I dont know if I am really seeing that or if I am not being patient. THe A is less and less secret--my kids know, some of our friends know. My H seems to be hinting he is thinking more about our family.My son thinks everything he says is just a lie because he has forgotten how to tell the truth. I second guess myself about being "too nice" although I think he is responding to it but I am uncertain if he will think I am not fighting hard enough for him as you said you did Saffie. This Friday we spend a day at the DB office in Ill ostensily to work on how to help the kids as he doesnt have much interest in MC per se. I need prayers and advice. I am getting a little hopeful but am I being an idiot--while he has me and the kids at the funeral and wih extended family afterward he still was texting back and forth with her-after he told my daughter it was OW who wouldnt stop texting him and it was mostly work related (not)
From the outside, that sounds better than I expected. He is like most of the cheaters on the board. They hope that they can balance both the affair and the marriage. But it is better than those ready to toss the marriage and charge full-steam after the affair. He is not leaving yet. And he seems to know which way he needs to go. He just doesn't have the courage to do it.
Good luck at the DB office. Perhaps he will see even more light after that day.
What you are saying is that your H is keeping you hanging on by making the appropriate noises whilst he decides what to do. Does that sound fair?
When I found out about my H's A it was literally two weeks before we were due to go on our annual family holiday with the kids and about four/ five weeks before we were due to have a break away by ourselves to celebrate our 20th Wedding Anniversary. My H wanted me to let things rattle along as they were with him trying to make up his mind between me and OW until we got back from both those holidays.
Now, for one thing, I was not going to be in a very good condition/ place mentally knowing I was 'on trial' and competing with an illusionary / not set in reality, relationship with OW. Also, it left my H in the grand position where he felt loved and fought over by two women, ( and however tortured he may have appeared to be over that he was loving it). He had gone from feeling he was getting NO attention to be the centre of everyone's attention.....and like a naughty child, any attention - good or bad- was better than none.
I went to see my psychiatrist and took my H with me. My psychiatrist does not do 'couples' work and was uncomfortable and only agreed to see my H at the very end of the session with me. He was quite clear with my H that I was his 'patient/client' and that it was me he was looking out for, but he also told my H that to ask me to stand by and give my H time to 'choose' was just unrealistic and down right cruel. The way he phrased it seemed to make my H see sense and he went home and we talked and a decision was made. He also said that as OW now knew I knew anout the A she would start to make my H feel under more pressure.....and that was so true.
There is no need for your H to reply to OW if she contacts him at times like a funeral. No-one contacts people about 'work' when a close relative has died. He is stupid to say that. He needs to respect you whatever the outcome is.
Finally, I have been on these boards a while and I have seen a lot of people let their partners dictate the rules and cake eat in the hope that by not making any waves their partner will come home eventually. DBing, as I understand it, is not about being a doormat. In nearly all those cases I am describing, the LBS ended up divorcing and nearly always wishing they had stood up for themselves.
It seems to me you are in a good position from what you say your H is saying. I wouldn't, if it were me, give him time to 'cake eat' and leave you in limbo whilst 'he decides'. The furture of your M is a joint decision; you should not be passive in that decision making process. YES, you can change things by yourself by making changes like showing him you do love him.....but you don't have to show him that by agreeing to everything he says. You don't have to wait whilst 'he' decides. You can make boundaries. It's your M too. Don't be a doormat - that is not an attractive thing to be. My doormats get dirty from everyone wiping their feet on them and then they get thrown away and replaced. YOU are more than that. Value yourself.
Saffie me 46 H 46 M in 1986 D20,D18,S16,D13 H's A 01/05 to 07/06 H recommitted to M 07/06 renewed vows 09/06 Going from strength to strength
Thank you Lotus and Saffie. Lotus, my H has already left. He rented a apartment in Sept for 6 months to be "alone" to think. I am having trouble setting boundaries right now because 1) I am afraid (which I know is doormat like) that since he didnt feel loved for a long time--and that was a lot my fault because I was dealing with my best friend's cancer treatment and death and sick mother and I really did not put my marriage where it should have been--that now I need to show him that unconditional love and 2) I feel like the boundary lines keep changing--since losing his dad who was an incredible, and honorable man is one of the most devastating things to ever happen to my H--H was there for me when my mother and best friend died. He is so confused, wracked with guilt about the A (knowing he let his father down even tho his father didnt know before he died)that I dont feel like pushing tHE OW issue to the breaking point. I really believe in his confused mind he has set he 6 month lease end date--4/10 as his time to sort things out an make a decision. You and I and the rest of the people on this board know that he is cake eating but I think he would see me making more demands as the bossy, I am always right, and overwhelming him with my better verbal skills type that I have been in the past. Where I get confused is "you dont have to wait while decides"--what should my boundaries be? I cant show him my love and also that the changes I have been working on for the last 11 months are permanent if he isnt coming back to our house at all. I am not being needy or demanding but I am being pleasant and loving and more wifely with food and encouragement and support than I had been. And, he doesnt just call or drop in unless there is an emergency--ie his dad's illness and death or our adult children are around. He does text and call her multiple times a day and also works with her closely every day in a small office. I think Saffie is right on about enjoying 2 women wanting him--it has to be a head rush to be wanted by us both. I guess I take some encouragement from him wanting my support during a terrible time but as things return to more "normal" in his life will he just slip back to hardly seeing me and spending all his time with her at work or on the phone/text. RIght now I feel he is at a vulnerable time emotionally where he is seeing the importace of family. WHERE should I start with boundaries?
