Is this the end of my marriage?

[sandi2]

Women apparently like men who are unavailable to them - I'm far too available and broadcast it at every available opportunity.

As in the great words of PDT......BINGO!

actually though of explaining away the pic in the house to my W by text or on Saturday when she arrives but then again, that will make things look even worse so I have decided just to ignore it.

No, don't try to explain any of it.

I just don't know what else to do in order for you to see that pursuing a WAW is not the way to draw her back to you. You can't smother her or pressure her with your conversation or deeds. Being unavailable will cause your W to become more interested in you and what you are doing.....if you are a bit mysterous instead of blabbing everything. You seem to think that the more you are around her and talk to her, the better the chances of reconciling. That is what seems logical....but it is not what works with a WAW. A WAW wants what she can't have so easily. Stop being easy and available to her.

[P17]

Women apparently like men who are unavailable to them - I'm far too available and broadcast it at every available opportunity.

As in the great words of PDT......BINGO!

The problem is ... I KNOW THIS STUFF! Everytime she is event DUE to come around everything I know about her, the situation, WAS, A's all goes right out the window and I become the pathetic, needy, pursuing wimp again.

interested in you and what you are doing.....if you are a bit mysterous instead of blabbing everything.

I think this is part of the problem even while she is still spending time with my D. I seem to tell her everything that is going on in my life!

logical....but it is not what works with a WAW. A WAW wants what she can't have so easily. Stop being easy and available to her.

Without cutting contact I'm not sure how to stop being easily available. We haven't got much contact anyway, other than for my D / her step-D so there isn't too much to not be available for.

Also as an update, and I'll explain why I'm mentioning this at the end.

I spoke to the guy who runs the car garage at the end of my street and told him that if my W came in then any bills need to go to her new address. My W and her OM were in on Wednesday during the day and the garage guy said that my W was flirting and trying to be 'around' the OM, but the OM just wasn't interested. He said he just didn't seem happy. He also said the OM actually was in yesterday for his own car and again he just didn't have a happy demeanour. He's also still smoking (my W is allergic to smoke) and that he didn't think it would last and would I take her back. He also told me that his partner (my W and his partner are friends) mentioned another reason why we split which he immediately dismissed as it was just inplausible - so that's the 6th (I know they rewrite the marital history).

The reason I mention this is that in my emotional state of yesterday I latched onto this. What I have been doing, very successfully up until now is dismissing everything I am being told and actually telling people not to tell me things. I also came out of my unhappy emotional state. So it seems my happiness is actually dependent on her / OM's unhappiness. Not good.

I've now almost dismissed what has been said by the garage owner as I'm starting to feel better about the sitch again. But it's just more evidence to me that I feel great when there is NC but fall apart in every single way when she is due or is here and for a day or so afterwards.

I may write a lot here and waver but I feel this is a safe place for me to try and get my feelings out and hopefully understand them. While I do backtrack a lot, I am beginning to recognise when it happens a lot easier.

I was planning on going LRT after the separation agreement is signed (I felt that if I did it beforehand she may just decide to screw me financially - at the moment she says she will just sign it as is - she has her stuff, I have mine). Advice / comments?

[P17]

I have been spending most of today thinking what I need to do, how to do it and reading DR, online, forums etc.

It is time for me to look into how I implement LRT / NC with my W. It is the only way I am going to be able to completely detach and focus on myself. My good days / weeks have been great because there has been no contact. My bad days usually focus around when she is either due to be here or she has just left.

I'm really not sure how to go about it - I gave my word to keep contact between my D and my wife so I feel like I have to justify why I'm removing it. I think going NC will actually suit my wife - she;s already told my D that no matter what she will always love her so she suspects this is going to happen but has already talked about plans with D in December (school concert, xmas presents).

I was thinking of saying to her that while there is a third person in our marriage (ie. the OM that is living with her) there can be no place for her in our marriage or my D's life. She abandoned me and my D. That's about as far as I got! I have a habit of making big elaborate speeches and I really don't want to do that - just want to keep it simple, to the point and also to make sure she knows that the door will be open should she want to talk.

Just not sure how to approach this. Can somebody maybe give me some suggestions on how they did this?

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Sometimes the shortest speeches are the most effective.

Ever wonder why my posts are so short?

I think what you have is perfect. Just preface it with a "I've been doing some thinking," and "I have decided that ..."

You are allowed to change your mind.

Puppy

[sandi2]

Puppy's your man there. But, to refresh my mind, did she actually "ask" you to give your word about not stopping the contact.....or did you just tell her that anyway? I think I remember her being more concerned about not being able to continue to see your D than having contact with you. So, if that is the case, would you stop her from seeing her stepdaughter? Just wondering.

[P17]

Puppy's your man there. But, to refresh my mind, did she actually "ask" you to give your word about not stopping the contact.....or did you just tell her that anyway?

I gave my word. She never asked me to.

I think I remember her being more concerned about not being able to continue to see your D than having contact with you. So, if that is the case, would you stop her from seeing her stepdaughter? Just wondering.

I and my D's mum are concerned that my D would be introduced to the OM. If you read one of the posts back (not sure how far) but my W sent texts to my D's mum saying that my D would "have to meet the other man someday" and could my W and the OM "come around and discuss my D with her". Basically, to put things in a nutshell, I don't trust my W and I said she wouldn't have unsupervised contact.

My W and I both agreed that we would build contact up from a few hours to a whole day as the last whole day we had didn't work.

My D is also very angry at my W and the OM for "breaking up our family" (my D is almost 9) so I'm not sure how healthy it is for her to continue it anyway.

[P17]

Sometimes the shortest speeches are the most effective.

Ever wonder why my posts are so short?

No. I knew exactly why you're posts are so short.

I think what you have is perfect. Just preface it with a "I've been doing some thinking," and "I have decided that ..."

You are allowed to change your mind.

I am. I just seem to be doing a lot of that and it's obviously going to come across as yet more changing of my mind and / or indecisiveness.

I just wanted to make sure she knew the door was always open for her but it's time for her to face up to her responsibilities and the consequences of her actions.

As I said, I think this is exactly what she wants but I need to do this for me and my D regardless.

[sandi2]

I just wanted to make sure she knew the door was always open for her but it's time for her to face up to her responsibilities and the consequences of her actions.

She may not understand exactly what those responsibilities are regarding your D. I think I would be somewhat confused if it were me. (BTW, I have read all your posts from the beginning.) But one time you talk as if you want your W & D to have a strong R and then another time you say you don't trust your W without supervised visits. You don't have to explain those details....but just pointing that out.

I do not agree with your idea of making sure that she always knows the door is open to her. That is the same thing as telling her that you will always be available to her, and that she will always be a part of your life (future) and that she can live like she wants to...then when she has had enough...you'll still be waiting for her. That is not the message she needs to be receiving! She needs to believe that she has "lost" her place in your life and in that house that once was her home. She needs to see you moving on with a life without her.

She is certainly moving on with a life apart from you. How can you pass her house each day and see OM's car there--and still say that you want to make sure she knows the door will still be open? And if the door is always open, then what are the consequences of her actions?

[P17]

She may not understand exactly what those responsibilities are regarding your D. I think I would be somewhat confused if it were me.

My W wants the contact. She was like a mother to my D and always has been as her own mother isn't great. She has been through 7 years of fighting for us to see my D. She has been through courts, social services, social workers etc. etc. Her legal responsibilities are none but I would hope she has some moral responsibilities. She is very maternal and treated my D like her own.

(BTW, I have read all your posts from the beginning.) But one time you talk as if you want your W & D to have a strong R and then another time you say you don't trust your W without supervised visits. You don't have to explain those details....but just pointing that out.

I understand what you are saying. Up until a few weeks ago the unsupervised bit wasn't even an issue. My D's mum and I started to get really at that time when my W texted my D's mum saying that she didn't want me involved in contact anymore because I was controlling her, she and the OM wanted to come around and talk to my D's mum about how best to stop my D getting confused about them and also that my D would HAVE TO meet the OM one day. This through both of us and the texts were quite forceful and completely inappropriate. We are both worried that my W will start to involve me D in her new family. That's why I no longer want contact to be unsupervised.

She needs to believe that she has "lost" her place in your life and in that house that once was her home. She needs to see you moving on with a life without her.

Okay.

She is certainly moving on with a life apart from you. How can you pass her house each day and see OM's car there--and still say that you want to make sure she knows the door will still be open? And if the door is always open, then what are the consequences of her actions?

I don't pass the house every day. Now when I pass the top of her street I no longer look down it to see who / what is there. However I take your point.

That is food for thought. I never really thought about thta. I did tell her a few weeks ago that I did not want her back but clearly my actions since then say something else.

I'm going to ask something that you may not want to answer. As you have been in the WAW / A shoes, what would you think would be most effective in this situation?

To try and detach, I'm going through this article I found on here - http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/

[P17]

My W will here at 3pm today until 6pm (it's currently 10.30am). I have decided to let her and my D spend time together without me being there (I'm usually there having fun with them) but still in the house. I've got things to do around the house so I will make myself scarce.

It's a start.