OK to discuss feelings about D (just do the "Not what I would have chosen, but I'll be fine" thing), but DON'T discuss anything legal with her. If she tries to, just say "that's probably a question better left for the attorneys."
She has mentioned that her friend is coming back into town in a few weeks (guy) and if its cool if she hangs out with him. I told her to "Knock herself out and have fun". Now I believe this is EA #2 in a period of the past 3 weeks. (The first went sour apparently because the guy didn't want to be a home wrecker.) She then made the comment "So can I sleep with him?" (now mind you she kind of had that joking tone, but there is no telling) I of course gave her a sharp look, you know the one that says "Hell no!". On this notion I am thinking about taking a stand on this one and telling her that as long as we are in the same house and until things are final that isn't going to fly. Any input on how to handle a situation on this?
Couple mistakes and again this is just my opinion but when a woman is testing you and pushing past your boundaries and disrespecting you, you don't greet her with friendly, amicable behavior.
She knows you're afraid to lose her, regardless of all the non-pursuing behavior that you are trying to suppress.
She wants to hang out with him because she is attracted to him. Physically, emotionally, mentally, its very exciting to her because she has many options now and she also knows that if things don't work out, she can always go back to her "boring, non-emotionally supporting" husband. You are option #2. She asks if she can hang out with another guy and then a few breaths later asks if she can sleep with him.
I'm going to ask you a question: - did any of those comments bother you? - did you have a twisting, churning feeling in the pit of your stomach? - if you didn't experience any of this, you're a robot!
Now I'm going to ask you another question: - are you going to bitch & moan about your situation while doing everything wrong or are you going to take advice that is counter-intuitive that may actually turn things around?
If you want my advice and it's given freely, you have to be the one with the balls to actually implement this advice into real life action.
First things first:
Her: "...if its cool if she hangs out with him"
You: "Yeah it's cool if you would like to start living elsewhere, how long did you think I was going to put up with this disrespectful crap behavior of yours?!"
You actually have to say that with conviction and mean it.
She is disrespecting you big time and women can't love men they don't respect. They will unfortunately be very cruel to the men they don't respect. Your wife is being cruel with you and you are being light & airy, not pursuing, smile on your face, everything is great. At one time she looked at you for security, how can she expect to feel secure around you if she can walk all over you, how could you protect her from anyone else? It's a subconscious instinct, millions of years of evolution isn't going to wipe out that instinct, I don't care what anyone says on this, this is the truth and it's why so many women leave their husbands in their 30s-40s, increased testosterone in their systems in this age range coupled with the fact that your own testosterone is on the decline, she's becoming more aggressive, more assertive, she's actively testing you regularly, she's probably emphasizing her appearance more now than ever before: going to the gym, tanning, new clothes, shoes, different hairstyle, hanging out with "friends" more often, spending less time at home, talking on the phone alot more, texting a whole lot more, maybe more time on the computer "chatting" with friends and don't get me started on that !@#$% facebook! So she's testing you more now than ever before and there's a reason for this, to see if the men they're with can hold their own, stand their ground, if you're weak & insecure around them, it kills the attraction and it kills the respect and love can't exist in that environment. There is a sexual polarity shift going on, she's becoming more masculine and you're probably becoming a little more feminine.
Read what I wrote above, it's counter intuitive to what you think you should do. You're in ass kissing mode, everything she does is ok if it means she's with you for one more day.
Do you really want to be with someone who disrespect you so much.
She then made the comment "So can I sleep with him?"
I'm sure she was joking at the time making you squirm in your skin while she did it. She wasn't joking about wanting to sleep with him though. She was having some fun at your expense, the power dynamic in your relationship has shifted so much that she feels she can do & say things without having to worry about your feelings. How does that feel to you? Are you enjoying this?
Your response: "Yeah you can sleep with him but I hope he doesn't mind you living with him full-time because you won't be living here in our home with our daughter. If you want to act & talk stupidly please go right ahead but don't expect me to stand here & listen to this crap, I have better things to do with my time. And if you're seriously considering sleeping with other men I guess it's time for me to start seriously considering sleeping with other women, maybe i should find out what all this fuss you're making is about?"
Say it with firm voice, put some pitch in your voice, don't yell it because that isn't what we're aiming for. We're aiming for calm, strong, secure attitude: the kind of attitude that says "do any of these things and it's your loss not mine!"
And then on top of that, if you have suggested marriage counselling, you can tell her "marriage counselling is for serious people so you can forget about it, I'm not interested in wasting my time & money on something that isn't worth it anymore"
Before anyone starts screaming & yelling that Rob is spouting off horrible advice. Stop & think about it for a second. You're all operating from a LBS state of mind. The WAS state of mind enjoys the power & control in the relationship because they've created a crisis situation with their LBS. The LBS is the one that is left to react, go through the horrible & painful motions of pleading, begging, ass kissing, supplication (buying gifts and going overboard with effort) and generally doing things that suggest that they aren't worthy, that they're insecure, clingy, hopeless, low value, have no self-respect, etc.
To turn this around you need to employ the WAS state of mind, you need to in fact become the WAS yourself. Detach, let go of them, let them do what they want to do but also you should feel free to do the same.
Playing the LBS usually only leads to alot of pain for the LBS and probably a decent amount of time in Limboland. I'm sure we can turn this around using a strategy and employing a mindset that is counter-intuitive.
But there is a catch, it requires real guts to do this, it requires a strength that many LBS's don't possess until after a long time into the separation where their WAS has done alot of crap that is close to unforgiveable. Stop all of this before it evolves into this.
Your wife wants a man, she's actively looking for one and also actively thinking about having sex with other men, if this is her second EA in a few weeks, I would say I'm pretty confident in that observation. She doesn't view you as a viable option anymore because she's walking all over you - I'm hoping you will stop that today.
Very good points Rob... and yes this made my stomach turn when she said these things. That is the reason I asked for input, because I have been wanting to confront her on the issue because I think it's bulls**t. Both you and puppy gave me some insight on how to handle the situation different from how I would handle it (which would probably be me blowing up).
My story: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1867595#Post1867595
And now everyone knows why later in the night after she made the comment, that my response to her the next time she ask about the divorce is "That I feel I'll be better off!"
My story: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1867595#Post1867595
If your wife is going to continue to exhibit this behavior and use the fact that you love and care about her to control you and treat you as a cuckold, then there is nothing wrong stepping forward and taking the control and power over in this relationship.
"do you mind if i sleep with him?"
My response would have been: Get out of my house, that is the most disrespectful thing anyone has ever said to me. Would you like it if I was sleeping with the girl from marketing, the neighbor, your sister? Get out, I am done. We should get divorced. You have no respect nor common sense. This isn't going to work out.
Too late to say that. But if you dont act now. You will most likely be finding condoms in the glove box or soild panties stuffed in the bottom of the clothes hamper. She not only tested you she made it clear what her intentions are.
Now: I would tell her calmly that you do not approve of her meeting/hanging out/visting this guy. It is inappropriate and is only going to cause more problems in our relationship.
And if she does go see him after discussing that with her. Very calmly, and carefully package all her belongings into u-haul boxes and leave them in the garage for her. That will be a loud and clear message that you are unwilling to share your wife with another man.
The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line, you should get in the habit of setting goals/objectives for yourself everyday, it can be small things/big things, etc.
Confront your wife with the items I've mentioned, practice it a few times (actually more than a few).
Now the part that alot of people fumble on is the discussion that invariably follows after making these types of statements.
I have an easy solution for that as well:
"You heard what I said, that's all I really needed to say, I'm not discussing this anymore with you - I have made a decision on this and I'm good with it. Snap out of your funk, work on the marriage or work on packing your things & moving out - you won't be living here if you plan on having affairs with other men."
And then.... turn your back & walk away. If you have to leave the house, come back late at night.
You won't have this argument with her, trust me, it would be the wrong thing to do and you don't want to learn the hard way. She would turn this around and make you the bad guy & guilty for even starting this discussion.
If she mentions things like divorce, legal issues, custody, etc.
I'm living in the house until we're divorced if that's what happens, if you have an affair, you can be sure you'll be living elsewhere. As far as the children, I'm going for joint custody and I'll get it, I've already spoken with a lawyer. Anymore legal mumbo jumbo, have your lawyer speak to mine. That's my decision - THANK YOU!!!
You'll see that I've added "making a decision", "it's my decision", "I've made a decision", all these indicate taking back control of your life and your existing environment, don't discount it's use the way I've laid it out, saying it the way I've indicated will have a strong effect. You see up until now, the way she's acting, her leaving the marriage, her wanting to separate & divorce, her having affairs (EA or PA or both), those have all been her decisions, she made them without caring about your input. You're making decisions now, for you and you're caring about her input. She'll see that. It's a requirement, you will need to do this.
No specifics, again like I said just walk away, go to another room in the house, leave the house, go to a friends, just leave the environment.
The idea behind this is simple, you're aren't going to put up with her crap behavior anymore, you respect yourself enough to let go of the people who don't value you or the relationship they have with you. You leaving the room, the house, that environment and doing it regularly when you have a heated argument with her on this issue is going to show her that you are ready to leave her. She may not feel it at first but you do this a few times and the effect will be felt.
The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line, you should get in the habit of setting goals/objectives for yourself everyday, it can be small things/big things, etc.
Confront your wife with the items I've mentioned, practice it a few times (actually more than a few).
Now the part that alot of people fumble on is the discussion that invariably follows after making these types of statements.
I have an easy solution for that as well:
"You heard what I said, that's all I really needed to say, I'm not discussing this anymore with you - I have made a decision on this and I'm good with it. Snap out of your funk, work on the marriage or work on packing your things & moving out - you won't be living here if you plan on having affairs with other men."
And then.... turn your back & walk away. If you have to leave the house, come back late at night.
You won't have this argument with her, trust me, it would be the wrong thing to do and you don't want to learn the hard way. She would turn this around and make you the bad guy & guilty for even starting this discussion.
If she mentions things like divorce, legal issues, custody, etc.
I'm living in the house until we're divorced if that's what happens, if you have an affair, you can be sure you'll be living elsewhere. As far as the children, I'm going for joint custody and I'll get it, I've already spoken with a lawyer. Anymore legal mumbo jumbo, have your lawyer speak to mine. That's my decision - THANK YOU!!!
You'll see that I've added "making a decision", "it's my decision", "I've made a decision", all these indicate taking back control of your life and your existing environment, don't discount it's use the way I've laid it out, saying it the way I've indicated will have a strong effect. You see up until now, the way she's acting, her leaving the marriage, her wanting to separate & divorce, her having affairs (EA or PA or both), those have all been her decisions, she made them without caring about your input. You're making decisions now, for you and you're not caring about her input. She'll see that. It's a requirement, you will need to do this.
No specifics, again like I said just walk away, go to another room in the house, leave the house, go to a friends, just leave the environment.
The idea behind this is simple, you're aren't going to put up with her crap behavior anymore, you respect yourself enough to let go of the people who don't value you or the relationship they have with you. You leaving the room, the house, that environment and doing it regularly when you have a heated argument with her on this issue is going to show her that you are ready to leave her. She may not feel it at first but you do this a few times and the effect will be felt.
If your wife is going to continue to exhibit this behavior and use the fact that you love and care about her to control you and treat you as a cuckold, then there is nothing wrong stepping forward and taking the control and power over in this relationship.
"do you mind if i sleep with him?"
My response would have been: Get out of my house, that is the most disrespectful thing anyone has ever said to me. Would you like it if I was sleeping with the girl from marketing, the neighbor, your sister? Get out, I am done. We should get divorced. You have no respect nor common sense. This isn't going to work out.
Too late to say that. But if you dont act now. You will most likely be finding condoms in the glove box or soild panties stuffed in the bottom of the clothes hamper. She not only tested you she made it clear what her intentions are.
Now: I would tell her calmly that you do not approve of her meeting/hanging out/visting this guy. It is inappropriate and is only going to cause more problems in our relationship.
And if she does go see him after discussing that with her. Very calmly, and carefully package all her belongings into u-haul boxes and leave them in the garage for her. That will be a loud and clear message that you are unwilling to share your wife with another man.
Read the text in bold about 100 times until you get it into your head how you should be acting.
Remember this is all counter-intuitive, I've read some of your posts, you're trying to be calm, smile, have a great happy attitude, not pursue, don't push her away, don't follow her around, man that's got to be painful.
Do you like tiptoe'ing around your wife?
Why is it you feel guilty & bad (or are acting that way as if you've done something wrong) and she's the one actively pursuing other men?
Snap out of it!!!
Wake up!!!
Our advice is going to get you back some respect: your self-respect, the respect you lost for yourself that enabled someone else to disrespect you so much and her respect - yes believe it or not, standing up to her especially in her current state of mind is going to change things
Doing what you've been doing up until now isn't going to do anything except enable her to have sex with other men and then laugh, smile and "joke" about it with you.
And now everyone knows why later in the night after she made the comment, that my response to her the next time she ask about the divorce is "That I feel I'll be better off!"
Depends. if she starts hanging out with these guys and coming home after midnight. maybe. yes.
What other things can't you stand about her?
Right now, I'd leave it at, "I have some thinking to do. I need some space right now if you dont mind." And begin acting very similar to how she is acting. maybe get yourself one of those texting cell phones and start going out dressed up in the middle of the week. Agree with her that this is not working out and suggest maybe she needs to move out, this isnt working! Rather than arguing divorce, I think you would be more successful displaying decisiveness and confidence that if it did happen it wouldnt phase you emotionally and that someone is ready to take her place.
