Keep Your Hands Offa My Mojo

[Lotus]

That's where we differ A&K. I've read the descriptions of SP's wife's behavior and decided long ago that I could not relate to this woman. I can understand a person who under severe stress experiences a very rare freak out - the human mistake, followed by regret. But that doesn't match SP's description. Mrs. SP seems to have some kind of wicked witch entitlement fantasy. Maybe I just wasn't born that wealthy. Last I checked we didn't have any royalty here. She gets no understanding from me.

[orangedog]

A well-respected Political Science professor taught us that equality comes from the division of labor

And every time that division goes wrong (quite often in my observance), I remember a line from a well-respected book; "All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

(sorry I had to get that in there - now back to topic.)


There are several shades of such going on here. O'Dog tends to feel more in line with the earlier sitches only because he was on the receiving end of it all too often. I don't miss it one bit.

[aliveandkicking]

I meant understanding of the situation and of SP's part in it. It is inconsequential whether or not you or I excuse or understand her behavior. When you break it down to simplistic right vs. wrong in a situation involving two adult and clearly intelligent people, you do no one any justice. And yes, if the roles were reversed, I would say the same. I suppose victim is as victim does. I find this silly and not really constructive. We each have our individual challenges and we contribute and participate. To write off all of my own behavior because my husband is acting like an a**hole will serve me little or not at all. But, this is not my sitch and to each his/her own...This feels like a popularity contest between SP and his wife. Hands down, SP wins, so what?

[Kettricken]

I tend to agree with your "chinese food" example, AK. It begs the question, "Do you ever listen to me AT ALL?" which is rarely productive of warm cozy feelings. However, that is still mind-reading, however seemingly justified.

And, along the lines of the widely-accepted definition of insanity, it would seem counterproductive to *continue* to tell such a person, "Whatever you want" when they have consistently proved themselves incapable or unwilling to execute to your standards. Then it's time for, "Would you please bring me chicken phad thai, 3 stars, and some black sticky rice, and a ginger ale, not Sprite, ginger ale. Thanks, babe!"

I do so agree that there's always something to be learned. In SPs case, I find myself quite curious as to how he responded to her diatribes in those circumstances. (Hey SP, don't mind me as I talk about you in the third person; how about it?) I think willingness to go there partly depends on where you are in the process, though. Anecdotal/sample size = 1, but when we were having our problems, there was this definite (oversimplified) progression: First I thought it was all his fault. Then I thought it was all my fault. Now I can surely see faults on both sides. This seems to echo through multiple situations on the board. You see it when you are able. (Doesn't mean you should stop reaching for better understanding, of course.)

[robx]

As far as that putative "testing" stuff goes, isn't that understood to be mostly unconscious on the woman's part? I don't see the relevance, anyhow. Statements along the lines of "you're worthless" etc aren't testing, they're just straight-ahead bitchy and destructive. If it was a man saying that stuff, no doubt the "abusive" card would be played early and often. For some behaviors, there is simply no excuse.

Yes it is subconscious but don't think that it won't affect your conscious way of thinking, that it won't steer you into performing a specific way, it will.

That line of "you're worthless", it's horrible & abusive, I will agree with that but it's still testing. That lady has crossed so many boundaries with SP and even though he's gained back alot of ground and then some, don't expect her to stop - if you're expecting for the testing to stop, that's naive - it won't. If it's subconscious behavior, the only thing you can do to control that "testing" is to change the pattern of behavior at your end that responds to her testing. You can either view it as a test and smile and reply accordingly because you know it's a test and that in the end it's just a reflection of how insecure she really is, regardless if she admits it or not. Respond confidently and let her know you're not putting up with her crap behavior and repeat that on a regular basis when the devil in her comes out, she will know that he's ready for the tests, she will gain some security in that knowledge and the testing will actually subside a bit. However, respond angrily or emotionally, show that you are hurt because she says something so evil and she knows that you're insecure about yourself, she smells blood at that point and the boundaries will continue to be pushed, the testing will continue.

You want the tests to end, realize that they are tests, use that knowledge to your advantage, smile & pass the tests. It could be that the tests continue because you keep failing them in one way or another.

[Kettricken]

You're probably right about the proper response, if I am understanding that your suggested response is to throw down hard, firm, and serious (although not mean). I don't get where the smile comes in.

I really don't.

I never understood this "testing" stuff from the moment I read about it. You guys are probably going to think I'm naive and just oblivious and I do it and don't know it. Mebbe. Don't think so though. The problems I've caused in our relationship, I've mostly caused by being *over*tender of my husband's feelings. Full fusion, and *just* as bad in many ways, but totally alien to this bitchy pushy testy denigrating stuff. That mindset and behavior, conscious or unconscious, supposedly so "feminine", simply baffles me.

What's-his-name, from Seattle -- Gottman? doesn't he say that contempt is the all-time number one marriage killer? I agree with him. It's hard for me to see any positive response to expressed contempt as anything other than capitulating to a terrorist....

So seriously. Why smile in response? (I assume you mean external smile, if not, please clarify.)

[Kettricken]

Never mind. I just read your advice to 2overcome. No smiles there! Although of course I would still welcome your thoughts if you are so inclined.

[robx]

Smile because you know it's a test,
you're confident, you aren't scared,
you welcome the test.

Remember back in school, huge exam at the end of the year, you weren't prepared, the look on your face, one of horror.

Remember another time that you studied your a$$ off and when the exam was in front of you, you smiled, because the test was easy, it was like you had the textbook inside your head, you "aced" it.

Confidence, it's a good thing to have, worthy of a smile, it also tells your spouse that you're ready for her and her tests - they expect you to be thrown off by the tests, they have to, otherwise why test you? They don't expect you to be ready for the tests, you're one of the few people she'll confront that is ready for the tests. The tests exist for a reason, to test how you handle them.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

Remember another time that you studied your a$$ off and when the exam was in front of you, you smiled, because the test was easy, it was like you had the textbook inside your head, you "aced" it.

Yeah. Its' that smug, almost condescending look that those contestants on "Final Jeopardy" get when they know they have the correct answer safely written down.

[orangedog]

The fact these tests exist at all is trouble. Two confident, comfortable, happy people have no reason to test one another or play games. There are enough tests outside the relationship (work, money, life). When the team starts playing against each other instead of the opponent, the ball game is over.

Like I said, I don't miss it at all.