M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
True story: Earlier this week, my dad was riding in a car full of people. A younger woman asked an older woman, "Should we stop somewhere so you can use the bathroom?" Older woman: "No, I'm fine." My dad, being no fool, thought he detected a hint of rodent and asked the younger woman, "Do *you* need to use the bathroom?" Younger woman, "Yeah, I'm dying here."
W.T.F.?.
I don't know what kind of freaky anachronistic barefoot-and-pregnant-handmaidens socialization this is, but I'm against perpetuating or enabling it. I wonder to what degree WAW rage is driven by a head-on collision between this obsolete socially-determined disinclination to state needs/desires directly and the power/responsibility that comes with being an equal breadwinner, etc, in this egalitarian age.
Whatever. You can talk about mars/venus all day long, but in the final analysis, it's supremely unfair to behave in a way that punishes one's partner for being an imperfect mindreader. Talk about your ultimate cheeseless tunnel, for both parties.
Over and over, I see this. (And it's not all women doing it to men, yo.) The party of the first part sacrifices and suppresses and sucks it up, in *silence*, and eventually develops an irremediable font of resentment and a state of supreme pissed-offness at the poor oblivious party of the second part who didn't "step up" and make corresponding sacrifices and/or do all the things they "should have known" to do to reward all the pretty little martyrness.
I guess it irritates me to see men (or anyone) inclined to take responsibility for not being sufficiently "sensitive" or adept WRT this particular dysfunctional dance.
Solutions? Dunno. Best I can figure, ask specifically for detailed input regarding preference, timing, etc. on any task or choice with joint impact. Then do your spouse the honor of taking them at their word. If this results in fallout, put a stop to it right smartish by articulating your displeasure at the disrespect and walking away from the abuse, if nothing else.
Why is simple honesty so hard? I ask myself that as someone who came damned close to torpedoing a perfectly good, even awesome, marriage as a direct result of the above dynamics. You have to articulate your desires to yourself and accept them as valid before you even have a prayer of doing that with your partner.
I guess that's another part of the solution. It's much easier to be honest and open about needs and dreams if they aren't received as nitpicks or putdowns by your partner. So working to produce an atmosphere where it feels "safe" for either partner to speak their mind without being encouraged to feel monstrous for so doing seems like a good goal.
Absolutely. I got burned too many times on this one. The translation is "I can't describe it but I know what it is when I see it." (10 points if you know the famous quote)
Justice Stewart when asked to define "pornography".
Damn, you beat me to it!!
It's one of my favorite quotes. That, plus "Always be in the superior knowledge position," but that one was just uttered by my brother Tom, so not too many people know it.
True story: Earlier this week, my dad was riding in a car full of people. A younger woman asked an older woman, "Should we stop somewhere so you can use the bathroom?" Older woman: "No, I'm fine." My dad, being no fool, thought he detected a hint of rodent and asked the younger woman, "Do *you* need to use the bathroom?" Younger woman, "Yeah, I'm dying here."
W.T.F.?.
I don't know what kind of freaky anachronistic barefoot-and-pregnant-handmaidens socialization this is, but I'm against perpetuating or enabling it. I wonder to what degree WAW rage is driven by a head-on collision between this obsolete socially-determined disinclination to state needs/desires directly and the power/responsibility that comes with being an equal breadwinner, etc, in this egalitarian age.
Whatever. You can talk about mars/venus all day long, but in the final analysis, it's supremely unfair to behave in a way that punishes one's partner for being an imperfect mindreader. Talk about your ultimate cheeseless tunnel, for both parties.
Over and over, I see this. (And it's not all women doing it to men, yo.) The party of the first part sacrifices and suppresses and sucks it up, in *silence*, and eventually develops an irremediable font of resentment and a state of supreme pissed-offness at the poor oblivious party of the second part who didn't "step up" and make corresponding sacrifices and/or do all the things they "should have known" to do to reward all the pretty little martyrness.
I guess it irritates me to see men (or anyone) inclined to take responsibility for not being sufficiently "sensitive" or adept WRT this particular dysfunctional dance.
Solutions? Dunno. Best I can figure, ask specifically for detailed input regarding preference, timing, etc. on any task or choice with joint impact. Then do your spouse the honor of taking them at their word. If this results in fallout, put a stop to it right smartish by articulating your displeasure at the disrespect and walking away from the abuse, if nothing else.
Why is simple honesty so hard? I ask myself that as someone who came damned close to torpedoing a perfectly good, even awesome, marriage as a direct result of the above dynamics. You have to articulate your desires to yourself and accept them as valid before you even have a prayer of doing that with your partner.
I guess that's another part of the solution. It's much easier to be honest and open about needs and dreams if they aren't received as nitpicks or putdowns by your partner. So working to produce an atmosphere where it feels "safe" for either partner to speak their mind without being encouraged to feel monstrous for so doing seems like a good goal.
So I take it you don't speak Venusian, Kett?
Puppy
I think she means she was once FLUENT in Venusian. If you don't use it, you lose it!
Greek
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
The bottom line was this: WAW cannot give up the notion that she's in charge. She took Ultimate Power -- ameliorating her own feelings of powerlessness in the marriage when she dropped the Bomb. She would define when the marriage ended, and it was then.
Yep. You said in an earlier post that divorce is about nothing, if not power.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." - William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830's.
Life is too short to be treated poorly by someone who you hoped would do the opposite.
Yep.
Isn't that what would be called script around here from a WAS?
We try to measure, manage and create time. Time is relative just ask any LBS after the bomb.
"Success is the peace of mind that is the direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the the best that you are capable of becoming." Coach John Wooden
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
I think she means she was once FLUENT in Venusian. If you don't use it, you lose it!
Greek
Only too fluent. These days, I wash my own mouth out with soap when I catch myself reverting. And I call S. out on it too (toldja it wasn't the sole province of teh ladyeez.) Life is too short.
I agree about the heavy FOO influence, Greek. I wonder how generational this is.
"Show me a completely smooth operation and I'll show you someone who's covering mistakes. Real boats rock." -- Frank Herbert
I would guess VERY much a generational thing, and predominately from mother to daughter. I was fluent in Venusian, too...my mother taught me. Expressing what I really wanted was not ladylike and/or bitchy (and no one wants to be a b!tch aka strong woman!). But what we want has GOT to come out some time so we learn the games. I'm very careful with our D12 when it comes to this. Once I asked her what her problem was b/c she was sending out The Vibe. She turns to me and says, "I'm pissed off at you." While I didn't approve of her language, I applaud her ability to get to the point of how she felt at that moment and share it. I see myself as stopping a cycle when I give her the safety to go there.
Greek
Me45 H46 T25 M22 S21 & 19 D13 Separated and filed 8/08 Moved home 11/08
