"I've been doing some thinking, and I have decided that (four very powerful words, those -- remember them, as we'll use them later, too) I need some space. I'm questioning whether or not I want to remain married to someone who would treat me so poorly, and who would disrespect me so much that you would suggest I 'try out' for the position of being your wife for 3 months. You need to find yourself a place to stay, by the end of the week, because I have some thinking to do."
If I wasn't at work I could type some doozies.
Coach,
The thought of you in a dress just isn't doing it for me.
In reality, by the time I came across it, things were already over, but I think it is a great example of setting the boundary, and yet making it about yourself.
I agree with 100% of the initial post as long as another party is not involved. But I do think it begs the question,
What if the WAS is actively engaging in an affair?
Do you suggest/promote that the spouse who wants the WAS back should be ok with the 'dating' concept, having good times, re-building a relationship, etc etc with no pressure, just seeing where things go? From what I have read of you Robx I would not expect that for a minute...
Otherwise I do agree though. I am one of the thousands of 'unique' people here who has committed that foul. You know, the one where you say, "We have been getting along so WELL these past 37 (or for the NOW NOW NOW people, 3 (!)) days, are we getting back together? Are you committed to me? Huh? Huh? Huh? Are ya?"
Yeah, that is so NOT attractive...yikes. But happens all the time...
futureunknown. While an affair is going on what are you doing in the marriage? Seriously? Remove yourself from it. Set the boundary and enforce it. Your choice is to be in a marriage with only the two of you. Her choice is accept this or leave. Not both. Respect yourself. You made your mistakes. Let her go make her mistakes.
cutterbug-
I did remove myself from the marriage for quite a while, and I had resigned myself to D, but as my W's affair died down she started to reach out to me, just as robx describes. In my case, OM is VERY far away, so that blurred the situation a bit for me. Our M was very broken long before the affair, so I decided to ignore the affair for a little while and just work to rebuild my R with my W. My belief was that if my W had only our history to look back on, she would never decide to come back. I had been working on myself all year, as had she, and I was curious as to how we would now interact. I was surprised how strong the connection was between us still, and so was she. It was only after I found myself getting pulled back in that I set my boundary and told her I can't continue to see her while she is still involved with OM. She hasn't yet responded.
This is exactly the kind of clarification I was looking for from robx. If an affair requires an absolute complete block to all interaction with the WAS, then his advice doesn't apply to the majority of situations here, because an OP is involved most of the time.
In reality, by the time I came across it, things were already over, but I think it is a great example of setting the boundary, and yet making it about yourself.
You would advocate hanging in there DB'ing for one's self, and just seeing where it goes? What of leading out of limboland?
Not trying to set up a fight. I am just trying to grapple with both these plans. I don't see how one can do both at the same time.
Well db'ing is about getting you back to the point before the bomb was dropped, before you were dropped like a bad habit by your WAS.
When you both come together and agree to start working on the marriage & the relationship, you aren't divorce busting at that point, you're reconciling.
Leading yourself out of limbo is DB'ing, actually it's a great thing to do, this act by itself will probably product alot of positive results for yourself and your spouse will notice.
Hear me out on this.
Leading yourself out of limbo acknowledges that you don't want to wait around forever for your spouse.
You're taking back some of the power in the relationship, your spouse originally made the decision to leave you, you've been pursuing like most LBS's, you stop pursuing, you detach, you let go of your attachment to the outcome, if you divorce, it's ok, because you will survive & thrive regardless of this. You stop pursuing your spouse, they notice you're not there pursuing them anymore, the dynamic shifts, they're used to eluding you, running away from you, maintaining space between you, you've stopped pursuing, they no longer have those tasks to perform (staying away, maintaining space). They notice that you have changed, you're no longer disagreeing with them on the divorce, in fact you're going in the opposite direction, you're agreeing because it frees you from limbo and you really are agreeing, they knew your intentions all along and since they didn't want be a part of that reality of reconciliation, you're now a part of their reality, pursuing a divorce, they have no one to fight against, you agree with their feelings because you share those same feelings, there is no more animosity, they can't fight someone that agrees with them, you're no longer their pet, you aren't pursuing them, you've become an individual again, you're charting your own course, you're going your own way and you are creating space between the two of you, more times than not, the WAS will fill in that space, that void - someone has to and that someone is no longer you. Since you appear different because you are different (you're no longer pursuing), they question what you're up to, is this another trick or is this for real? You're not pursuing, you're not wearing your heart on your sleeving preaching your undying love for them, they see the individual again, the confident person that is ready to live again without them, confidence is attractive, charting your own course and being a leader in your life is attractive, you're no longer needy, insecure which are unattractive qualities.
In the end, you have to decide to starting living again and that means letting go of the outcome, detaching, really detaching and living your life. If your spouse wants to share their life with you, something will happen between the two of you, the space between you two will be minimized, the lines of communication will open up again, and you have to be smart to recognize the opportunity but not jump at it, just realize it, observe it, and slowly ease yourself into a position where your spouse is comfortable around you again and you never bring up relationship talk, the goal ideally is for them to bring up relationship talk and for you to listen instead of dictating what you want at first. Make your spouse feel comfortable around you again because they've had to put defenses to guard themselves from you for quite some time now.
Here's a novel idea.... the WAS that left you because they didn't want to be with you is suddenly spending more time with you, suddenly communicating with you more often, doing things with you, smiling with you, is comfortable with you. Keep doing what you're doing! Don't bring up relationship talk, talks of reconciling, enjoy the moment! Stop worrying about the future, you don't know what tomorrow will bring so stop worry about tomorrow, enjoy today if today is the day your WAS wants to talk with you and share a drink or a meal with you or wants to do something with you & the kids. Be humble and appreciate the time you have with them, don't hasten the process and demand that things have to change and that you need to reconcile at this moment. Consider this a form of dating even if it isn't officially labeled as such. Stop forcing your spouses to have to be with you. If you have to force someone to love you and be with you, do you really want to be with those people? If those same WAS's make moves towards you, to communicate, to spend time with you & your children, to come over, to share a meal, etc. Enjoy that time you have with them, celebrate a success internally with yourself that you were able to accomplish something of such a grand nature when this WAS originally left you and never wanted to interact with you anymore. Stop asking for more, start appreciating what you have and stop believing that you deserve more than what you have - truth be told no one deserves anything, you get what you get in life because you placed yourself on that path to get the results you received. Stop believing you are entitled to something, entitlement breeds resentment and that will lead you down a path of anger & disappointment and poor results.
robx-
I hope MWD is mining these boards for material for her next book, because there is some really good stuff here, and your post is golden. Her first book DB was good, and DR was better. As this stuff is hashed over and over on the boards, and as some of the members here become experienced "gurus", I think the concept of DBing continues to be refined.
In my opinion, the DB and DR books should be expanded to include more material on how to DB, and stay sane, when an affair is involved, and that's why I snipped out your particular paragraph to discuss. Given how prevelant affairs are in situations here, I think your paragraph is ignoring a very important issue.
I don't know if you've followed my sitch or not, but that paragraph describes mine in spades. My W is doing everything as you describe, and my instinct is to just enjoy it, let time go by, and see what happens. I have no desire to rush to reconciliation or force my W's hand. However, my W is involved in a long distance affair, so I don't feel I should just give her a free pass, and let her cake eat. I asked her if she'd like us to spend time together and go out and have fun, and she quickly said yes, but I had to "spoil" the good vibes and tell her I can't do it if she's still involved with someone else. That turned our fun light moment very heavy. I was insisting that "things have to change", something you say not to do.
Do you think your advice still applies even if an affair is ongoing?
Short answer.... UMMM YEAH!!! It applies to every situation.
If you read the very last part of my post, the part of the post aimed at people who are in abusive relationship, I consider a spouse cheating on you to be a form of abuse: physical, mental, verbal & emotional abuse.
Walking power: you don't know how much power there is available to you. When you decide to leave a relationship because a partner is not valuing you or the relationship they have with you (ie. cheating) and YOU DECIDE to let go of that person and leave the relationship, you have reclaimed that power in the relationship, you made the decision at that point to do what's best for you and there is so much power in making that decision. You have reclaimed your life. You are no longer a 2nd option to your spouse, in fact you are no longer any option to your spouse. You are detaching, you are no longer pursuing, you are moving in the opposite direction, you are deciding to leave the relationship and look at how that motivated you to act, to find education on these boards, to seek support for your situation, to find answers, to determine what to do, you did all these things because your spouse left you to have an affair with someone. When you decide to leave your spouse, detach and accept your relationship's current status for what it is and truly move on, you are accomplishing the same thing. The dynamic changes, you've reclaimed your life and you've reclaimed the power in this relationship, regardless if it's evident on that day that you decide to walk or 30 days after that decision.
DBing for yourself will eventually lead you out of limboland. Either with or without W.
When you are confident enough within yourself, you can say something like this (of course modified to fit your situation), that I "borrowed" from "Passionate Marriage":
"I've been doing some thinking, and I have decided that (four very powerful words, those -- remember them, as we'll use them later, too) I need some space. I'm questioning whether or not I want to remain married to someone who would treat me so poorly, and who would disrespect me so much that you would suggest I 'try out' for the position of being your wife for 3 months. You need to find yourself a place to stay, by the end of the week, because I have some thinking to do."
Jeff,
I can see the value in what you suggest. But, this would seem to be nothing but pressure, which is the opposite of what robx seems to be suggesting.
Am I missing something (quite possible)?
In Jeff's example, the relationship is abusive, when one spouse can suggest to other spouse that they "tryout" for the position of their spouse, they've relegated that relationship to nothing more than being a joke.
Read the last part of my original post on valuing yourself and the relationship you're in. If you partner doesn't value you or the relationship they have with you, you need to detach and let go of them. Attempting to prove to them that you are worthy of a relationship with them actually accomplishes the opposite, having to prove to someone that you are worthy actually suggests that you aren't. Telling someone repeatedly that you've changed suggests that you haven't.
Thank you for this timely post, Im not sure where things are going in the next three days, but I intend to enjoy what Im given and see where it goes, Im not rushing things, or setting parameters, just enjoying the fact that my spouse is not running in the opposite direction but for some unexplicable reason coming back towards me?
____________________________
W 47 H 47 M 24 T 30
Once lost but now found and happily married again!
